My first LF Camera :)

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ErinHilburn

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Finally after years of longing I have a large format camera a Christmas gift from my father to his graduating college student :wink: I've purchased film, film holders etc. Now I only have to discover what lens to buy...only there was no instruction manual and I'm sad to say I don't know very much about LF cameras (something I'm hoping to remedy). So would anyone out there know a handy source of information in regards to the Cambo 4x5? I tried searching on google, but got nothing but sale items.
Thanks in advance,
Erin
 

Nick Zentena

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I guess look at Simmons book on the view camera use. Outside of that the chapter in Ansel Adams book. There is a view camera textbook too but it's quite a bit more money. Might be better putting the money towards more film.
 

jimgalli

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Erin, you can put almost any LF lens on your Cambo. Since you may be using just a single lens to begin you may want to think about how you see the bulk of your pictures and come up with a focal length that equates to your taste in LF. I started out 12 years ago with a Cambo and a 210mm lens. I was just as ignorant as anyone could be and it was a case of good luck that's what I got to begin with. The 210 is common and very forgiving for beginners. You get a lot for your $$ with it. Mine was a multi-coated Caltar-S II which it turns out is a Schneider Kreuznach top quality product. It had gobs of movements which is helpful while you're trying to learn what the camera can do for you. It fits on a Copal 1 lens board. On a 35mm system that lens would equate to about a 62mm iirc. Later you'll want to get a 90mm for wider angles or perhaps a 125mm if you don't really gravitate to wide scenes. I bought a 75mm for my second lens and it was a mistake for me. I just don't see that wide and it was dark to focus and difficult to use.
 

P. Yee

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I also would suggest looking at Steve Simmons' book "Using the View Camera". Its a nice introduction. I also suggest you got to viewcamera.com and look in the free articles section. There is a nice focal length chart relating the large format and medium format lens to comparable 35mm focal length. There is also an article on getting started in large format.
 

johnnywalker

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The large format photography website has some excellent articles covering just about everything.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

I have Steve Simmons book and recommend it. In the meantime, read the articles on the website above and other sources
 

DrPablo

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I got my first 4x5 (a Calumet) last summer and then traded up to a Cambo Legend. I second the recommendation for a 210 -- it's a very versatile lens that you can use for almost anything.

Steve Simmons book is excellent, by the way.

One thing I'd suggest is to start off with some 'dry' shooting. Just look through the camera, play with the movements, play with the focus, get a sense of how all the mechanics work. The hardest part to learn (intuitively) are the focal plane movements (i.e. tilts and swings). I think it's very helpful to read about those in addition to practicing; the other stuff you can pick up just from playing with the camera.

It's also a reasonable idea to do a little bit of polaroid shooting to get a sense of exposure and composition. A used Polaroid 545 holder will be about $95 or so -- it's the film that's expensive at around $70 for a box of 25 sheets, but in my mind it's a one time expense. There isn't much you can do with a 4x5 polaroid image so I regarded it more or less as a tutorial.

Other useful components that you can find pretty cheaply (like at KEH.com) are a focusing loupe and a dark cloth.
 

bob01721

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"... There isn't much you can do with a 4x5 polaroid image so I regarded it more or less as a tutorial..."

I agree that Polaroids are a great way to learn. Instant feedback. And Type 55 film also gives you a very fine grained negative.
 

noseoil

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My vote for a first lens would be something a bit wider (120-125mm). You will have movements, coverage and better depth of field with a wider lens. It does depend on which lens you use in 35mm as to how you "see" subjects. The 125mm lens would be about a 38mm lens in 35mm format. Which lens do you like in 35mm? tim
 

walter23

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Finally after years of longing I have a large format camera a Christmas gift from my father to his graduating college student :wink: I've purchased film, film holders etc. Now I only have to discover what lens to buy...only there was no instruction manual and I'm sad to say I don't know very much about LF cameras (something I'm hoping to remedy). So would anyone out there know a handy source of information in regards to the Cambo 4x5? I tried searching on google, but got nothing but sale items.
Thanks in advance,
Erin

The things to consider with a lens are the focal length and aperture (obviously - the aperture is mainly for focusing and composing and larger = brighter), but less obviously lens coverage (how big a circle does it throw - bigger allows you to get more movements without running out of image circle), coatings (older lenses from e.g. the mid or early 1900s can be single coated or if you go back far enough not coated at all), and the type of shutter it's mounted in. Modern (1980s+) lenses are multicoated and usually in Copal brand shutters which are sort of the standard (there are compur and others too).

Most modern Rodenstock and Schneider lenses are very good (and Nikkor and Fujinon as well); there are a lot of older lenses that are also very good. Newer ones typically are painted black and have an appearance something like this, and the advantage of multicoated optics and a good shutter:

RS1320-1.jpg


I'd look on ebay for a Caltar lens in good condition - these are Rodenstock lenses with a different name stamped on them (there are also a couple of Schneiders, and even a Horseman designated by Caltar HR)- very high quality glass and brand-conscious people are afraid to buy them which means you can save a few hundred over the exactly identical rodenstock (the flipside is that you won't get as much reselling them, but you're buying it to shoot, not to make money on ebay!). If you're familiar with 35mm film or digital SLRs (which I'm sure you are) here are three lenses to consider and their rough equivalent in 35mm terms (full frame, not APS-C digital):

Caltar-II N 90mm f/6.8 (or f/4.5 for a bit more money) (same as Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm): Somewhere in the 20-24mm range.
Caltar-II N 150mm f/5.6 (same as Rodenstock Apo-Sironar N 150mm): About a 35mm slightly wide / normal lens.
Caltar-II N 210mm f/5.6 (same as Rodenstock Apo-Sironar N 210mm): A slightly long normal - ~50-60mm.

I have the 90 and the 210 and they're excellent lenses. If you want to look up the specs of these lenses, there's a chart here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html.

I use my 210 quite a bit and the 90 a bit less (it's hard to get movements out of this focal length without switching to a soft bag bellows which is sort of a hassle). All three of these lenses have good coverage for doing all kinds of extreme movements (shifts, tilts, swings, rise/fall, etc). I'd get a 150 or 210 first, because 90 really is a very wide angle lens.

I paid $400 for the 90 and $205 for the 210mm. The rodenstock labelled ones usually go for $200 (or more) higher, even though they're exactly the same in every single way (made by the same factory, serial numbers in series with each other, etc).

These lenses typically come in a Copal shutter (Copal 0, Copal 1 or Copal 3, in order of size from smallest to largest). Whatever lens you get should come mounted in a shutter (some enlarging lenses etc come as "barrel" lenses which are not quite as useful), and you'll need to buy a lens board with an appropriate sized hold to mount it. To mount it you unscrew the rear element of the lens from the shutter, and remove the retaining ring. You can use any suitable spanner wrench for this, and there are lens-specific ones for sale at (for example) badgergraphic.com. I bought the $14 square piece of metal one and it works great.

In general largeformatphotography.info is a really good resource for articles and information about LF photography. There's also a good discussion forum there.
 
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ErinHilburn

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In 35mm the range I use most often its 35mm to 80mm but I want to do a bit more reading before I really decide. I don't want to go into purchasing something as important as a lens completely ignorant about it. Thank you Tim for the suggestion and Walter for all the information it was very helpful I will research the suggested lens a bit more.
Thanks,
Erin
 

walter23

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Erin, I think you'd probably be best starting with a 150 or 210mm lens then. I find my 210 pretty versatile, I've shot everything from landscapes to intimate environmental portraits of objects. I don't do people with LF, they'd be scowling and flipping the bird at me by the time I got around to making an exposure, but I'd guess 210 would be a good portrait focal length too.

You should be able to get a great 150 or 210 for about $200 if you watch ebay long enough (or check mpex.com or keh.com for used deals). Ebay is of course a bit of a risk so take the usual precautions of buying from strangers without seeing the lens; ask lots of questions and try to judge the integrity of your seller by looking at their feedback, the wording of their auction and policies (I never buy from people who put a thousand conditions and terms and explanations on their auctions because I figure they're going to be a royal hassle to deal with), and other items for sale, etc.

My philosophy for lens buying was to watch for a bargain rather than hurrying to get the first lens I saw that met my needs. I saved a lot this way. It was a bit easier because I bought my 90 before I even had the camera; I was able to take my time and wait for a deal. When I got the 210 I was likewise in no hurry because I already had a 90 to play with, so I bid on probably 4 or 5 auctions before getting the one at a price that seemed good. If you take your time you'll most certainly get a great deal. Of course if you don't want to mess around, go get a nice 210 or 150 from keh.com and don't look back. Just make sure you find the specs on the lens before buying (you don't want some kind of press camera lens that has very little image circle to play with, because movements are one of the reasons you're getting into this format - right? You should go for around a 200mm image circle if not larger so you can get some good tilts & shifts from the lens. 162mm is about the size of your film diagonal, so a lens with around 165mm image circle coverage would not give you any movements at all. This spec is often listed on the manufacturer's website, or on that largeformatphotography.info lens data sheet. I think my Caltar 210mm has a 220mm image circle, so it can do lots of movements. My 90 is similar; 190 or 200mm circle, plenty of room to shift and tilt. There are some expensive monster lenses with 400mm coverage, but these are huge and heavy (and can be used on an 8x10)).
 
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removed account4

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hi erin

you can kind of guestimate the focal length compared to 35mm by a factor of 3. for example if you like shooting with a 50mm ( with a 35mm ) it would be around a 150mm with a 4x5 ... it really isn't as hard as it seems .. there is a lot of mystique around a bellows camera but once you play around a little bit you will realize it is really pretty easy. the hard thing is trying to pronounce "scheimpflug" :smile:

-john
 

John Bartley

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Erin,

All of the answers above are very helpful and seem technically correct, but I would encourage you to remember that learning through experimentation is great fun.

While you're looking for a "good" lens, why not try putting "any old lens" on a board and take a photo or two just to see what you get? Even something like a lens from an old magic lantern projector or from and old slide projector can create some unique and pleasing pictures and best of all, they can be had very cheaply.

What you learn from your experimenting with "any old lens" will certainly help you choose the good and expensive lens that you buy.

cheers
 

BrianShaw

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My vote for a first lens would be something a bit wider (120-125mm). You will have movements, coverage and better depth of field with a wider lens. It does depend on which lens you use in 35mm as to how you "see" subjects. The 125mm lens would be about a 38mm lens in 35mm format. Which lens do you like in 35mm? tim

I'd second this (becuase it was how I did it and found the approach to be successful) but I was a little more conservative and went with a 135mm. I believe 135 might be more available/affordable than some of the 120s.
 

Kilgallb

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I started with a 127 mm Kodak Lens with an image circle just a little to small for any serious rise or fall. It really taught me how to use the camera movements. I think the lens cost me 80 bucks. About a year ago I purchased a 210 mm Sironar N (I think N means Nikon) and found it a lot easier to focus and the sharpness was much improved. I got it from KEH.com for less than $300. (Bargain) Do not forget that every lens also needs an investment in filters. I spent an additional $100 on a RED and an AMBER filter.

I still use the 127 mm from time to time, I just have to remember to keep movements to a minimum.
 

davet

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Congrats!

I agree that Polaroids are a great way to learn. Instant feedback. And Type 55 film also gives you a very fine grained negative.

Quite so, keeping in mind that the positive and negative have significantly different speeds (neg is slower).

Killgalb said:
About a year ago I purchased a 210 mm Sironar N (I think N means Nikon)

Um, no. Sironars are made by Rodenstock.

I agree with the advice about not obsessing over a lens -- this ain't small format. Any modern lens will be excellent, also most older ones (one of my favorite lenses is a very sharp 135 WF Ektar from 1949.) Focal length, decent coverage, and condition are probably most important. Well, no, just getting something and playing with it is probably more important!
 

JosBurke

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""I agree with the advice about not obsessing over a lens""----I agree too but I'm obsessed with those petzvals--thanks to Jim Galli----Honestly I have a very fine 135 Caltar II in Copal 0 that I'll let go for $225 shipped in the cont. US--My favorite 4x5 lens--but since was OBSESSED about a Carl Zeiss Planar 135- and acquired it I no longer need the Caltar/Rodenstock 135mm 5,6 !!
email me if interested josburke at bellsouth.net
 
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