My first LF camera. Excited! Can use some advice.

Steven Lee · Aug 8, 2022

After years of agonizing (yes, years!) I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Chamonix 45F-2 camera with Rodenstock APO-Sironar S 135mm f/5.6 lens and a fitting lens board. They are arriving in a couple of weeks. I also have two film holders on the way from CatLabs. My plan is to learn the ropes by hiking to known locations in my area and re-taking my favorite medium format images. That also explains my choice of the focal length.

I think I am still missing a few things though, a focusing loupe and a dark cloth. I have no idea which magnification would work best. Is bigger always better? Focusing is going to be interesting... My experience with focusing screens for 35mm/120 has been that they're quite fragile, the idea of pressing a hard object against them on a regular basis is... new. I just hope that LF focusing screens are more robust.

For a dark cloth, I have received the recommendation for Blackjacket. Any other options I should consider?

For developing film, I have my eyes set on a JOBO 2520 tank + 4x5 reel due to compatibility with TAS film processor. Has anyone used this?

Also, is there anything else I'm missing?
Thanks.

ic-racer · Aug 8, 2022

I use 6x but 6x to 8x is popular.
I remember when I got my first 8x10, I went around re-taking things I had usually done with 35mm. I realized I can lug the 8x10 just about anywhere I could take the 35mm.

Donald Qualls · Aug 8, 2022

Can't go wrong with BlackJacket.

I'll admit, I've never used a loupe with large format. I'm nearsighted enough I just take my glasses off. But you don't need to press the loupe against the ground glass, you just need to have it in contact -- or you can turn it around like a jeweler would. FWIW, I've replaced a ground glass fairly recently; they're at least as sturdy as the glass in a small picture frame. Not exceptionally delicate.

Almond Butterscotch · Aug 8, 2022

With the dark cloth, I'd suggest considering your environment/location. I had a synthetic fabric dark cloth when I first got into large format, but the heat and humidity of Houston TX basically made it that I had to have a fabric dark cloth.

Regarding the loupe, I can't imagine ever not using it. I have two in my trunk case; one is a 4x and the other is a 10x. I think both are outside of the magnification ratio I'd actually advise; as IC mentioned, something in the 6x to 8x range is probably ideal. You only really need it to check focus, while general composition will be easily visible under the dark cloth.

As far as other items, a spot meter (or a digital camera) will always be useful. I also carry a 2ft length of measuring tape so I can calculate bellows extension factors to adjust exposure and a notebook to log everything. You also didn't mention anything about film holders, so just to be sure, make sure you have at least a couple of those!

Donald Qualls · Aug 8, 2022

AlmondButterscotch said:
You also didn't mention anything about film holders, so just to be sure, make sure you have at least a couple of those!

Steven Lee said:
I also have two film holders on the way from CatLabs.

Good thinking ahead, Steven. I will suggest when you get your first box of film, pull a couple sheets and sacrifice them to practice loading film holders. I've had trouble with the film not going into the groove from time to time, which you won't notice until after you expose and the dark slide won't go back in...

Almond Butterscotch · Aug 8, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Good thinking ahead, Steven. I will suggest when you get your first box of film, pull a couple sheets and sacrifice them to practice loading film holders. I've had trouble with the film not going into the groove from time to time, which you won't notice until after you expose and the dark slide won't go back in...

100%; I would recommend not just sacrificing a sheet or two, but also keeping it around. I actually sharpied "this side towards lens" on my sacrificial sheets to refresh myself every time I'm loading (because I can never remember if the grooves go top left / bottom right or top right / bottom left).

Donald Qualls · Aug 8, 2022

AlmondButterscotch said:
not just sacrificing a sheet or two, but also keeping it around.

Well, that's what I meant. I have 3-4 sheets on my darkroom counter at present, with various light creases in them from loading errors. They make fine practice sheets.

madNbad · Aug 8, 2022

Go into a darkened room and look in the mirror, now stand on your head. Get accustomed to composing a photograph on the ground glass and get a decent level. Learn the notch codes while you're at it. With its challenges LF can be one of the most rewarding forms of photography. There are few things better than seeing a 4X5 chrome on the light table. Have fun!

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 8, 2022

As to a dark cloth, if you are at all handy with a sewing machine, or know someone who is, get two yards of lightweight cotton canvas from Big Duck Canvas (one sheet black, the other white) and sew them together. Loupes are great, but they're also easy to forget. I use my reading glasses (I have a pair that are +1.75 that I use). I like them better for overall composing because I'm not getting tunnel-vision. I'm thinking of getting a pair of +3's just to give me a bit more boost, although I haven't needed them yet.

bdial · Aug 8, 2022

There is no particular need to get a readymade dark cloth, most of mine have come from a fabric store. Buy a yard or two of some dark/black fabric. Another option that works quite well is a xxxl or so black t-shirt. Put it over your head and extend the body over the back of the camera. The t-shirt work especially well in windy conditions. Usually easy to find in a thrift shop.

I mostly use an 8x loupe, assuming I remembered to get it in the case before heading out.

Chuck1 · Aug 8, 2022

congratulations on the chamonix, i've never touched one, that would make me want one, so I need to be careful (they are really nice?) take your time and practice loading film a large work surface and a chair in a dark room are very helpful, set up a system or a way of working and refine it.
I have several loupes but have never used it in the field, the magnifier swing away(like the linhof)or the pop out hood(like the toyo) is great, when it's hot or cold (or windy)
enjoy

Roger Thoms · Aug 8, 2022

One the dark cloth/hood, I have both BlackJackets and BTZS hoods. I tend to favor the BTZS hood because of its simplicity. That being said the Blackjacket hoods are excellent quality and their customer service is very good. For me the darker it is under the dark cloth the better as it really helps me with both composing and focusing. That‘s why I prefer hood over simple dark cloth. I have a pair of 2.5 diopter reading glasses that I find very helpful for composition and a 6x loupe for critical focusing. Really depends on your eyesight.

Roger

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 8, 2022

I use BTZS dark cloth. It's black in there! I use a black-out curtain for my ULF camera. Got a big one at my local furniture store. Dark gray on one side, white on the other. I use stationery clips to keep it on the camera. Heaps cheaper than an actual dark cloth.

GKC · Aug 8, 2022

For a dark cloth you can cobble up your own (least expensive) use a dark Goretex jacket(most expensive, but a multi-tasker) or buy a commercially manufactured one. You can also double a couple of black t-shirts. The choice is yours and your negatives won't know the difference whichever you choose..

For a loupe I started with an old ubiquitous plastic Agfa 9x---a bit overkill---but others have used linen testers, dime store reading glasses, folding magnifying glasses and, well, honest to gosh brand name focusing loupes.
Use what you're comfortable with. Too high magnification and you may get distracted by the marks on the ground glass---you want to focus on the aerial image.

Other items you'll need is a cable release(take two, the Photo Fairy likes to hide them when no one is looking) and if your're shooting B&W a basic set of filters is nice
A light meter is also nice if you don't want Sunny Sixteen everything.
A wide brim hat comes in handy for a sun shade for your lens if needed.

Have fun!

GKC · Aug 8, 2022

About loading film holders---this is how I taught myself.
Orient the film holder and the sacrificial sheet how you'll place them in the dark room
Film holder slide partially drawn back (I used the silver or white side to indicate unexposed film, but do what you want that works for you) and flap open, film with the notch in the bottom right corner
Slide film into the holder until you feel it seat into place. Don't touch the emulsion (up) side. Close flap and slide shut. if it won't, somethings wrong and try again.
Once you can do it with your eyes open, try it with your eyes closed.
Then try it with the lights out.
When you're comfortable with loading, it's like riding a bicycle----you never forget.

Tim Stapp · Aug 8, 2022

This! There is nothing like sliding the darkslide back in after taking a shot and feeling the film pop our and lodging itself into the camera belows (ask me how I know. Both shots on one DDS).

When first starting, sacrifice at least one sheet of film to practice with. It's invaluable. From loading your film holders to practicing developing to loading JOBO film reels to checking developer activity to verifying fixing solutions activity: a couple sheets of "Practice Film" is invaluable.

Since I don't often shoot 135mm film much at all anymore, I have the occasional roll of 120 film for the testing (the 4x5 sheets have already been sacrificed and have served their purpose. I use them only now to "practice load" the JOBO film holders for developing.

Welcome to the darkside! If you have any more questions, ask away. This is a fantastic forum of experiences LF shooters that are more than willing to share their knowledge, experience, expertise and opinions. A tremendous resource.

gone · Aug 8, 2022

You're probably going to want more film holders pretty quickly. May as well buy them now. 4x5 film is actually pretty reasonable to buy, and a lot of LF shooters have great results w/ the budget priced Arista/Foma films. It's different than shooting 35mm and MF too, so the more images you take the quicker you'll figure it out.

Craig · Aug 9, 2022

For a dark cloth I use a piece of denim I bought as a remnant at a fabric store. Supre cheap and plenty dark enough. Also a bit heavier, so it doesn't blow away in moderate winds.

Nitroplait · Aug 9, 2022

From your choices, it doesn't look like you have budgetary concerns, but as has already been hintet, not everything has to come off the top shelf from day one.
Also, this is not one-size-fits all, so you may realise that you have different than average needs.

Foma for less than 1€ pr sheet (maybe somthing else in US) to practice. There are just so many things to go wrong until you get it under your skin. Foma is also fine for prime time, but if budget allows there are films that are easier to handle out there.

A thick oversized black t-shirt or light jacket as dark cloth. Remember that you want to travel light - if something can have a double function it is a plus.

I have bought some cheap strong reading glases from the drugstore to view the focusing screen closer than my eyes or normal glasses would otherwise allow (and this is often enough for focusing). Get a neck string so you can just drop them when not using.

When I need a loupe, I use an old 75mm schneider enlarging lens reversed - and taped it onto the plastic part from a dollar store loupe - to protect the focusing screen/fresnel.

A normal focusing screen is glass and not as sensitive to touch as the plastic in 35mm and medium format. If you use a fresnel attachment it may be a little more sensitive but I have personally not had any problems.

It is nice to have at least enough film holders to fill the developing tank, and think in multiples of tank capacity when you buy more.

Taking notes and staying organised will help you immensely.

Have fun.

Rick A · Aug 9, 2022

Well, it seems the dark cloth and loupe have been covered enough, so lets get on to light meter, tripod, and means of transporting the kit. A good quality incident light meter is essential, also a spot meter is handy to have. Is your tripod sturdy enough to handle the weight of the camera plus stout enough to withstand any wind. How do you plan on packing your kit into the back country COMFORTABLY, and BTW you're going to need more film holders than the two you bought. There are other sundry items you'll need to finish the kit, but those are whatever you believe you'll need "just in case". Almost forgot, cable release, a good quality release and a backup.

Nitroplait · Aug 9, 2022

Rick A said:
Well, it seems the dark cloth and loupe have been covered enough, so lets get on to light meter, tripod, and means of transporting the kit. A good quality incident light meter is essential, also a spot meter is handy to have. Is your tripod sturdy enough to handle the weight of the camera plus stout enough to withstand any wind. How do you plan on packing your kit into the back country COMFORTABLY, and BTW you're going to need more film holders than the two you bought. There are other sundry items you'll need to finish the kit, but those are whatever you believe you'll need "just in case". Almost forgot, cable release, a good quality release and a backup.

Good point about the meter. I tend to bring my lighter Sekonic L308 and leave my large and heavy Pentax Spotmeter at home (and I rarely miss it)

Donald Qualls · Aug 9, 2022

Nitroplait said:
Foma for less than 1€ pr sheet (maybe somthing else in US) to practice.

Freestyle Photo and B&H both carry Fomapan and the rebranded Arista .EDU Ultra -- same film, different box, almost the same price. Though the rebrand is Freestyle's, sometimes B&H has it for less and they have free shipping for orders over $50 (which is one 50 sheet box of even this low-priced film). IMO, there is no better "first film" for new large format users than one of these two, ISO 100. Once you stop misloading film holders, scratching sheets during development, fogging film in the changing bag because you forgot to take off your smart watch, etc., it's reasonable to move up to other films, but you might well find that, for ISO 100 B&W, you don't like FP4+, Delta 100, or T-Max 100 any better.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 9, 2022

Nitroplait said:
Good point about the meter. I tend to bring my lighter Sekonic L308 and leave my large and heavy Pentax Spotmeter at home (and I rarely miss it)

That little Sekonic L308 is a great little meter. You don't NEED anything beyond it. That said, since you can now develop individual sheets of film as required, instead of having to average an entire roll worth, I'd recommend getting a spot meter and learning how to use it. There's a great Minolta Spotmeter F as a used option - it can spot meter natural light OR electronic flash, and isn't as big or heavy as one of the older analog Pentax spot meters (the digital Pentax is similar in size/weight). There's a Minolta Spotmeter M also, but it has several drawbacks - only ambient light, not electronic flash, a narrower range of EVs for sensitivity, it uses a hard-to-find silver oxide battery, and instead of an off/on switch, the lens cap for it is the off/on, which means if you lose the lens cap it stays on all the time until the battery drains. The Spotmeter F has an off/on switch, and it uses a double-A battery so even if it goes dead on you when you're on the road, any convenience store/grocery store/pharmacy/whatever will have spares.

GregY · Aug 9, 2022

I'll revisit the dark cloth options. I used a BTZ for a while. I didn't like the coated material & it feels like having your head in a plastic bag. I've got a few classic cloths, a light 4x5 size one labelled Calumet, a Harrison and an 8x10 version that i got from Jay Dusard. I use the big one almost all the time, it' got washers sewn into the corners and doesn't fly away in the breeze. Even the Calumet gets used for longer trips... you can wrap the camera in the DC before putting it in your pack. IMO breathable materials are far more comfortable to work under. IMO, there's no need to spend the $288 USD for the special order Linhof model.

juan · Aug 9, 2022

Keep your practice sheets of film and use them to practice loading the Jobo, too.
You haven’t mentioned tripod. The 4x5 will likely need a heavier duty one than you used with MF. Member here Mat Marrash has a video you might find interesting.

My first LF camera. Excited! Can use some advice.

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