My first Fiber print!

Well, I wanted to see with my own eyes what all the fuss is about. I've been printing exclusively with MGIV RC till today. I made my first prints (All 2 of them) on MGIV FB. These are my impressions:

1) The print looks very beautiful, deep and rich. The FB print required a half grade less contrast with the same exposure to match a previously developed RC print.
2) Now I really understand what curled paper looks like!
3) It's a loooooong process. I decided to follow Ilford's Optimum permanence sequence with selenium toner.
4) I use my Jobo for all my RC print development except toning. I decided to develop and fix the FB in the Jobo then continue the sequence in trays. I wish I could run the entire sequence in the Jobo. I have enough drums to make this very efficient.
5) I was VERY surprised with how warm the print color is. The base is creamy and the blacks are warm. I tried to cool the print down with 10 minutes in 1+19 selenium but it made little difference.
6) The first print shows rib marks running along the width of the paper. These clearly result from the ribs inside the Jobo drums. 4 minutes in a dry mounting press cured the curl but not the marks. The second print didn't show any rib marks. The first print was dried very quickly in an RC print dryer, while the second one on a drying screen overnight. It looks like slow drying does away with the rib marks. I was very glad to find this.

Now I'm wondering why not run the entire Ilford Optimum permanence sequence in the Jobo with the exception of the final wash? Has anyone done this? Are there any issues to consider when using selenium toner in a Jobo? Also, how do I get a print that approaches the colder blacks of MGIV RC? Will more concentrated selenium toning do the trick?

Thanks,
Luigi

Congrats - the MGIV is okay paper - wait till you get your hands on some other good ones. You may want to try a different developer to get rid of the warmness. I have never found the regular MGIV very warm toned myself using Dektol.

I have recently switched to Adox MCC fiber 110 as my new standard for a lot of reasons.

Differently than you I find dealing with print processors a real hassle and actually prefer tray processing for prints. I guess it depends on how may prints you are doing and the way you deal with them - I never make less than 20 prints in a printing session and trays seem to be the best / most efficient way for me.

RB

Thanks for your reply RB. I'll try Dektol as you suggest. It quite difficult to find brands other than Ilford in Canada, and shipping from the US is very expensive. For now I'll try to stick with the Ilford paper and see if I can get what I'm after.

I hear you regarding print processors. One printing session in my darkroom almost always results in only one print. This goes into my portfolio, and of course I have a detailed printing log so that I can reproduce quickly if I need to. The tedium of tray rocking and paper swapping is too much for my hyperactive personality to manage. I can pop the paper into the Jobo, and rush off to do something else like vacuum the house

I'm sure there are apugers that use Jobo's for FB processing....can't tell though by the response to my post. I'll try another post on the specific topic and see what happens.

Luigi

Pasto said:

Thanks for your reply RB. I'll try Dektol as you suggest. It quite difficult to find brands other than Ilford in Canada, and shipping from the US is very expensive. For now I'll try to stick with the Ilford paper and see if I can get what I'm after.

I hear you regarding print processors. One printing session in my darkroom almost always results in only one print. This goes into my portfolio, and of course I have a detailed printing log so that I can reproduce quickly if I need to. The tedium of tray rocking and paper swapping is too much for my hyperactive personality to manage. I can pop the paper into the Jobo, and rush off to do something else like vacuum the house

I'm sure there are apugers that use Jobo's for FB processing....can't tell though by the response to my post. I'll try another post on the specific topic and see what happens.

Luigi

Click to expand...

Tray processing is really easy and quick - All the time is in the wash. After years of screwing with different ways of doing it here is my sequence (I am sure that people will find fault with it but I have tested if over and over again with regard to permanence, etc)

Develop Dektol (1+2) for 1 to 2 minutes (depends on paper)
Water stop bath - 30 secs
TF-4 fix - 1 minute. (30secs for RC)

Wash 20 -30 mins. (5 mins with RC) All washed at the same time.

If you use the right fixer you can dramatically shorten your fix/hypo clear/wash cycle with NO detrimental effects and in fact improve your prints in a lot of ways like reducing wet time and reduction of image density.

Of course I have special purpose developers for some things and toners etc but this is my basic process and you really cannot get much done in 2:30 3:30 secs that the actual processing takes. In fact you can do more than one print at a time as well.

RB

Pasto said:

Thanks for your reply RB. I'll try Dektol as you suggest. It quite difficult to find brands other than Ilford in Canada, and shipping from the US is very expensive. For now I'll try to stick with the Ilford paper and see if I can get what I'm after.

I hear you regarding print processors. One printing session in my darkroom almost always results in only one print. This goes into my portfolio, and of course I have a detailed printing log so that I can reproduce quickly if I need to. The tedium of tray rocking and paper swapping is too much for my hyperactive personality to manage. I can pop the paper into the Jobo, and rush off to do something else like vacuum the house

I'm sure there are apugers that use Jobo's for FB processing....can't tell though by the response to my post. I'll try another post on the specific topic and see what happens.

Luigi

Click to expand...

Tray processing is really easy and quick - All the time is in the wash. After years of screwing with different ways of doing it here is my sequence (I am sure that people will find fault with it but I have tested if over and over again with regard to permanence, etc)

Develop Dektol (1+2) for 1 to 2 minutes (depends on paper)
Water stop bath - 30 secs
TF-4 fix - 1 minute. (30secs for RC)

Wash 20 -30 mins. (5 mins with RC) All washed at the same time.

If you use the right fixer you can dramatically shorten your fix/hypo clear/wash cycle with NO detrimental effects and in fact improve your prints in a lot of ways like reducing wet time and reduction of image density.

Of course I have special purpose developers for some things and toners etc but this is my basic process and you really cannot get much done in 2:30 3:30 secs that the actual processing takes. In fact you can do more than one print at a time as well.

RB

Pasto said:

Thanks for your reply RB. I'll try Dektol as you suggest. It quite difficult to find brands other than Ilford in Canada, and shipping from the US is very expensive. For now I'll try to stick with the Ilford paper and see if I can get what I'm after.

I hear you regarding print processors. One printing session in my darkroom almost always results in only one print. This goes into my portfolio, and of course I have a detailed printing log so that I can reproduce quickly if I need to. The tedium of tray rocking and paper swapping is too much for my hyperactive personality to manage. I can pop the paper into the Jobo, and rush off to do something else like vacuum the house

I'm sure there are apugers that use Jobo's for FB processing....can't tell though by the response to my post. I'll try another post on the specific topic and see what happens.

Luigi

Click to expand...

Tray processing is really easy and quick - All the time is in the wash. After years of screwing with different ways of doing it here is my sequence (I am sure that people will find fault with it but I have tested if over and over again with regard to permanence, etc)

Develop Dektol (1+2) for 1 to 2 minutes (depends on paper)
Water stop bath - 30 secs
TF-4 fix - 1 minute. (30secs for RC)

Wash 20 -30 mins. (5 mins with RC) All washed at the same time.

If you use the right fixer you can dramatically shorten your fix/hypo clear/wash cycle with NO detrimental effects and in fact improve your prints in a lot of ways like reducing wet time and reduction of image density.

Of course I have special purpose developers for some things and toners etc but this is my basic process and you really cannot get much done in 2:30 3:30 secs that the actual processing takes. In fact you can do more than one print at a time as well.

RB

This is pretty much Ilford's optimum processing sequence with a water stop (which I also use) and an alkaline fixer (which makes it possible for you to skip the Hypo clear step). As I use Ilford rapid fixer I need an extra 10 minutes of hypo clear before the 30 minute wash. How does your sequence change if you're toning say with Selenium?

I am the wrong person to ask - I never tone my prints until I have evaluated them dry and then make toning decisions based on that. So...

I do toning as a completely different process.

Wet
Tone
Wash

In regular lighting since the process is also highly interactive.

RB

Pasto said:

I'm sure there are apugers that use Jobo's for FB processing....can't tell though by the response to my post. I'll try another post on the specific topic and see what happens.

Luigi

Click to expand...

Takes to much time for something that is simple and pleasurable to do, watching your print come up in a tray.

I, too, toned as a process separate from printing/processing the photograph. This allowed me to save up a batch of good prints of several different images (16x20, usually) and tone them in one session. Keeping consistant with print color between a set of images was easier to judge this way for me. I had a chance to live with the image for awhile before deciding to tone them and mat them up. I could manage my use of Selenium toner more efficiently, keeping it to a minimum.

I use trays. Personally, I prefer to keep focused on the printing and not run off to do something else while a Jobo is running. But that is just my way of approaching printing, not the only way, nor the right way. I would spend 12 hours or so straight, going through 10 sheets of 16x20 on one image...with the last 3 prints usually being marked as keepers (but sometimes nothing -- it is difficult to work an image that is just not there to begin with). The time the papers were actually in the chemicals is relatively small. I often would make a work print of a new negative before I left -- as a jump start for my next printing session. Actually, I just like handling big pieces of wet paper, LOL!

Good luck in your printing. It is good to fine a material you like to work with. The are cooler papers out there, and many that react more dramatically to selenium than Ilford Multigrade.

Vaughn

Thanks to all for your helpful comments. Regarding tray processing, is there a preferred method? Example, tray rocking, lifting (from the tray) and then lowering the print repeatedly, swishing around the developer and paper with hand, etc?

Luigi

Hi Luigi:

I would recommend tray rocking by lifting and lowering each corner of the tray sequentially.

Matt