My first developed film.

Twiggy · Jun 5, 2024

Ah, that's what I assumed, but just needed the clarification.

Unfortunately, I cannot do that this moment, as I have no stand alone fixer available to me at the moment, I'd have to buy some online and get it shipped.

Oh well, not the end of the world though, this was really just a test run to actually go through the developing process, and then see if I can actually get images, which I did.

I probably won't be buying fixer, as I hear that after semi-stand developing with rodinal (like I plan from now on), just rinsing thoroughly with water should be enough, is that correct?

Augustus Caesar · Jun 5, 2024

Twiggy said:
Ah, that's what I assumed, but just needed the clarification.

Unfortunately, I cannot do that this moment, as I have no stand alone fixer available to me at the moment, I'd have to buy some online and get it shipped.

Oh well, not the end of the world though, this was really just a test run to actually go through the developing process, and then see if I can actually get images, which I did.

I probably won't be buying fixer, as I hear that after semi-stand developing with rodinal (like I plan from now on), just rinsing thoroughly with water should be enough, is that correct?

No. Fixer is needed. And why Rodinal?

lamerko · Jun 5, 2024

The normal black and white process in general is as follows:
1. Pre-soaking. An optional step and just a personal preference. The pros and cons of this step is a long topic.
2. Developer;
3. Stop bath. It can be acidic or just a water wash;
4. Fixation;
5. Final washing and drying;

In very rare cases, this process is reduced to two steps - a combined developer/fixer chemistry and a final wash. This Df96 developer is just that, but the results can be very inconsistent and problematic.
Rodinal is following normal developmental steps - it NEEDS a separate bathroom with a fixate. The semi-stand process is a stirring method, it does not change the steps.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 5, 2024

Twiggy said:
Ah, that's what I assumed, but just needed the clarification.

Unfortunately, I cannot do that this moment, as I have no stand alone fixer available to me at the moment, I'd have to buy some online and get it shipped.

Oh well, not the end of the world though, this was really just a test run to actually go through the developing process, and then see if I can actually get images, which I did.

I probably won't be buying fixer, as I hear that after semi-stand developing with rodinal (like I plan from now on), just rinsing thoroughly with water should be enough, is that correct?

You need to fix the film with fixer! Are you confusing it with stop bath?

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 5, 2024

Augustus Caesar said:
No. Fixer is needed. And why Rodinal?

Why not Rodinal?

Twiggy · Jun 5, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
You need to fix the film with fixer! Are you confusing it with stop bath?

I likely was.

yeah, so I will need to get Rodinal and Fixer before developing my next film.

Reason why I am using Rodinal is that it's affordable, and just what people generally seem to use for stand development.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 5, 2024

Twiggy said:
I likely was.

yeah, so I will need to get Rodinal and Fixer before developing my next film.

Reason why I am using Rodinal is that it's affordable, and just what people generally seem to use for stand development.

No worries about Rodinal. It's one of the oldest formulas out there... and it lasts indefinitely. Have fun!

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 5, 2024

There is nothing wrong with using a straight water rinse for stop bath, but many prefer an acidic one. If you go with a water stop, make sure you give several rinses to eliminate the developer. You don't really want the developer (alkaline) to carry over to the fixer as it will shorten its life.
MODERATOR HAT ON: Folks, lets not turn this into a water stop vs acid stop debate... MODERATOR HAT Off
Might I recommend Ilford's Rapid Fix? It's liquid concentrate, easy to mix up, like Rodinal.

Romanko · Jun 5, 2024

Twiggy said:
I took these pictures using a vintage 1932 Kodak Hawk-Eye-Special. Admittedly, they didn't turn out very well.

You've done an amazing job! Congratulations!

Old, unreliable camera with slow shutter speeds, difficult developer and processing the film for the first time. You could not have made it more difficult for yourself.

When you get the fixer, refix the film as suggested. If you are getting a DSLR camera you might consider camera scanning your negatives.

Twiggy · Jun 5, 2024

Thanks everyone.

So unfortunately, it seems my dad's EPSON film scanner cannot do 120 film, as the flat bed, only scans photographs (not negatives, and when I tried anyways, they came out very dark and horrible) and we seem to be missing the film holder that holds, slides, and 35mm, etc.

There is the "auto load" 35mm bay, so I can use that for 35mm, but yeah. When I have fixer, I'll fix them and use my new DSLR to "scan" them.

I'll see if I can get the Ilfords rapid fix here for a reasonable price.

Pieter12 · Jun 5, 2024

Twiggy said:
Thanks everyone.

So unfortunately, it seems my dad's EPSON film scanner cannot do 120 film, as the flat bed, only scans photographs (not negatives, and when I tried anyways, they came out very dark and horrible) and we seem to be missing the film holder that holds, slides, and 35mm, etc.

There is the "auto load" 35mm bay, so I can use that for 35mm, but yeah. When I have fixer, I'll fix them and use my new DSLR to "scan" them.

I'll see if I can get the Ilfords rapid fix here for a reasonable price.

You can use a light panel as a backlight source to scan negatives.

Don_ih · Jun 6, 2024

Twiggy said:
I'll see if I can get the Ilfords rapid fix

Be sure to follow the dilution instructions. You don't want to use concentrated rapid fix on your negatives.

The negatives look fine - they look great for a first time. You seem keen on doing stand development, but there's nothing magical about it. Personally, I like Rodinal at 1:25, with normal agitation - which means I don't have to stand around waiting for so long. I'd rather shoot myself than wait an hour for film to develop. Yes, you have to fix the film after stand development. Your monobath, being fresh, has probably completely fixed your film, if you followed the instructions.

Twiggy · Jun 6, 2024

Don_ih said:
Be sure to follow the dilution instructions. You don't want to use concentrated rapid fix on your negatives.

The negatives look fine - they look great for a first time. You seem keen on doing stand development, but there's nothing magical about it. Personally, I like Rodinal at 1:25, with normal agitation - which means I don't have to stand around waiting for so long. I'd rather shoot myself than wait an hour for film to develop. Yes, you have to fix the film after stand development. Your monobath, being fresh, has probably completely fixed your film, if you followed the instructions.

The way I see it, I won't have to literally stand for an hour, I can set a timer on my phone, and go to agitate and then later fix, stop and finish when the timers go off. I won't be developing tons and tons of film, only once in a while. Yes, it will technically take much longer, but, I won't be "involved" for the vast majority of the time.

nosmok · Jun 6, 2024

(Twiggy said:

So unfortunately, it seems my dad's EPSON film scanner cannot do 120 film, as the flat bed, only scans photographs (not negatives, and when I tried anyways, they came out very dark and horrible) and we seem to be missing the film holder that holds, slides, and 35mm, etc...)

Not sure which Epson scanner you have, but if you search "EPSON (model number) 120 film holder" on evilBay, you will get probably some hits-- I have a 4990 (still the cheapest 8x10 capable scanner out there) and a BUNCH of holders for various formats, all bought used aftermarket, and only one was completely wrong. Also, the way many Epson scanners work is that the base has the scanning head for opaque (paper) media; transparent media (negatives and slides) have the scanning head in the lid. I understand using the digital camera, but a scanner has its points too, not least of which is the ability to do one physical set up per roll.

Don_ih · Jun 6, 2024

Twiggy said:
I won't have to literally stand for an hour

Well, I said "stand around" which means wait. It's the difference between having your film drying 15 minutes after you load it onto reels or an hour and 10 minutes after. There's nothing so difficult about tipping a developing tank over a few times a minute for 6 minutes.

Twiggy · Jun 6, 2024

Don_ih said:
Well, I said "stand around" which means wait. It's the difference between having your film drying 15 minutes after you load it onto reels or an hour and 10 minutes after. There's nothing so difficult about tipping a developing tank over a few times a minute for 6 minutes.

That was true in this case, it wasn't that bad. However I am aware that with some other developers, they are even more temperature sensitive when it comes to development times, agitation, etc.

With stand development, that doesn't seem to matter, it is much "simpler" in a way.

I guess one has to decide for themselves whether they prefer simplicity, or efficiency. Given that I am gonna be mainly using a half-frame 35mm camera, I won't be developing that often, so simplicity wins out for me.

Twiggy · Jun 6, 2024

Just bought 3x 35mm (36exp) kentmere 100 BW, 500ml Blazinal, and Ilford Rapid Fixer 500ml. When they come in, I should be all set to develop more film.

Shame that I am going to waste the DF96 that is still good for like 15 more rolls.
Maybe someone may want my DF96 mix, for the price of shipping only?

albireo · Jun 6, 2024

Don_ih said:
You seem keen on doing stand development, but there's nothing magical about it. Personally, I like Rodinal at 1:25, with normal agitation - which means I don't have to stand around waiting for so long.

I am mostly a Rodinal 1:50 guy myself, regularly inverted of course, but I tried it in 1:25 the other day, because I was tired, it was late, I wanted to be done quickly and wanted to see how it would look on a roll of Foma 400 in 120.

I thought the results were great. Beautiful, well defined grain, uniform development edge to edge, good sharpness, with absolutely none of the nastiness you normally see from stand or semi-stand Rodinal developed negatives. I will use 1:25 more often.

Twiggy · Jun 6, 2024

albireo said:
I am mostly a Rodinal 1:50 guy myself, regularly inverted of course, but I tried it in 1:25 the other day, because I was tired, it was late, I wanted to be done quickly and wanted to see how it would look on a roll of Foma 400 in 120.

I thought the results were great. Beautiful, well defined grain, uniform development edge to edge, good sharpness, with absolutely none of the nastiness you normally see from stand or semi-stand Rodinal developed negatives. I will use 1:25 more often.

Is it really temperamental with temperatures, or does it not really matter?

my main issue, is things like controlling tempratures.

albireo · Jun 6, 2024

Twiggy said:
Is it really temperamental with temperatures, or does it not really matter?

my main issue, is things like controlling tempratures.

I'd say temperature matters, yes. What are the issues that prevent you from keeping the tank at a broad 20°C ±.5°C for a few minutes? For 1:25, we're talking literally 4-7 minutes depending on film and desired target contrast index.

I use this thermometer

PATERSON Colour Thermometer - fotoimpex.com analogue photography

Large, professional thermometer for color processing. Precise enough to measure exactly 38.5 °C. 30 cm long. 15 to 65° C. Mercury-free.

www.fotoimpex.com

It's slim enough to fit in the centre hole of my AP tank, so I use it to sample+monitor the temperature as I develop, too.

Twiggy · Jun 6, 2024

I have a thermometer, but as I said in my OP I already noticed a 3 degree drop in a short time.

I am not the only one in the house, and I have no control over when air condition goes on, when windows are open, etc.

I also don't want to spend a fortune on one of those fancy water heater things you can get either.

If "regular" developing didn't depend so much on controlled temperatures, then I would try it, but since it does, I can't. It's much safer and simpler for me to do stand/semi-stand.

albireo · Jun 6, 2024

Twiggy said:
I have a thermometer, but as I said in my OP I already noticed a 3 degree drop in a short time.

I am not the only one in the house, and I have no control over when air condition goes on, when windows are open, etc.

I also don't want to spend a fortune on one of those fancy water heater things you can get either.

If "regular" developing didn't depend so much on controlled temperatures, then I would try it, but since it does, I can't. It's much safer and simpler for me to do stand/semi-stand.

Sure. Enjoy!

koraks · Jun 6, 2024

Twiggy said:
If "regular" developing didn't depend so much on controlled temperatures

It doesn't. Well, not anymore than stand or semi-stand development. Those slow down at lower temperature and speed up at higher temperature just the same. The main difference is that with stand/semistand, the total time is much longer so the temperature drift will also be much bigger.

When I started out processing film, I bought a €1 fridge thermometer that turned out to be (a) waterproof and (b) go up to 30C or so, which was enough. I used the kettle to boil a little water and add that to a jug of cold tap water until I got approx. 20C. I still do it that way, years later, because it's so quick & easy.

You'll get OK negatives with stand/semi-stand, no doubt, but with regular agitation you'll be (a) done faster and (b) run less risk of uneven development. I'd recommend starting it with regular agitation, on the minute, and then 'upgrade' to more specific processing regimes if you find that there's an actual need for it. The odds that you'll run into real limits of normal agitation regimes are virtually zero, as you're looking at rather subtle differences.

It seems to me you're running into problems that need not exist, and then try to solve them with solutions that don't fit with those problems in the first place. It's not a way I'd recommend anyone to start out.

JerseyDoug · Jun 6, 2024

For B&W, temperature control doesn't have to be too precise, and it certainly doesn't have to be 68ºF (20ºC). If you are fortunate enough to live in a heated and air conditioned home you can do everything with the chemicals at ambient temperature. The time vs. temperature tables from Ilford, for example, cover the range of 56-76ºF (14-24ºC).

albireo · Jun 6, 2024

JerseyDoug said:
For B&W, temperature control doesn't have to be too precise, and it certainly doesn't have to be 68ºF (20ºC). If you are fortunate enough to live in a heated and air conditioned home you can do everything with the chemicals at ambient temperature. The time vs. temperature tables from Ilford, for example, cover the range of 56-76ºF (14-24ºC).

My impression - perhaps I'm wrong - was that it's not so much the target temperature that concerns him, but rather likely large environmental swings around the chosen value during development.

My first developed film.

Twiggy

Augustus Caesar

lamerko

Andrew O'Neill

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Andrew O'Neill

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Twiggy

Andrew O'Neill

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Andrew O'Neill

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Romanko

Twiggy

Pieter12

Don_ih

Twiggy

nosmok

Don_ih

Twiggy

Twiggy

albireo

Twiggy

albireo

PATERSON Colour Thermometer - fotoimpex.com analogue photography

Twiggy

albireo

koraks

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JerseyDoug

albireo

My first developed film.

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