My film is too long to scan? Well I'm not cutting it

bnorthr · Oct 15, 2020

Today I set up my new Epson v850 Pro, and I noticed that they have changed the film holders since the v700/750 generation ... not entirely for the better. On the medium format frame in particular, the previous generation featured two slots for film, with a sort of tapered ramp at the end of each that allowed excess film to trail out of the scanner. The new holders feature only one film slot - which I don't mind - but a hard stop instead of a taper on both ends of the film area - which I do mind! I organize my film in Print File pages which sleeve the film long-ways across the page in three columns, allowing for ~10in film strips (perfect for 6×6 film, but there's always one pesky extra frame with 6×7). I assumed this was standard, though I have seen 4-row page variations instead of the 3-column layout. Thus, my film strips are too long for the new Epson holders. Like a genius, I tried closing the holder on top of my film anyways, and was rewarded with a crease in my film. Bah. I checked BetterScanning.com, and found that their holder is advertised as holding film up to 240mm long -- still too short. But I don't know if it allows for overflow.

Does anyone have experience working around this problem? It seems easiest to me to just forego the holder and scan directly on the glass (I am aware of the potential loss in sharpness). My other idea is to modify the frame I have to allow for film overflow, but it seems a complicated task, and the risk of accidentally leaving a sharp edge to scratch film is high. Of course I could buy an old v700/750 generation frame, but their height control is inferior (and, having just thrown all my money out for a v850, I'm not keen on turning out my pockets any further). I can't imagine I'm the only one to have hit this snag.

grat · Oct 16, 2020

The newer frames work OK for my particular use cases, so I haven't run into your problem. If your film strips are greater than 9.5", that's going to be a problem for most film holders-- even the mounting station and the epson wet mount frame are going to have problems with that sort of length.

The lomography DigitaLIZA looks like it will hold film flat, and allows for overhang on both ends, so that might be an option. As you mention, the 750 frames are available, and are relatively inexpensive. I've been considering if it's possible to make some betterscanning style height-adjusters for them.

One very cheap, but fiddly option, would be to remove (gently!) the flap from the 800 series holder (it unclips if you have it all the way open-- I know this, I did it by accident once) and tape your negatives to the ANR insert so they're flat, in an "undermount" style. Repositioning the film would be the fiddly bit, along with getting the tape on so it holds the negative but doesn't interfere with the scan.

fs999 · Oct 16, 2020

A V700 double holder can be used in a V800. Or you can buy one for 25€...

bnorthr · Oct 16, 2020

grat said:
One very cheap, but fiddly option, would be to remove (gently!) the flap from the 800 series holder

Ooh there's a thought, thanks! I hadn't considered that.

jeffreyg · Oct 16, 2020

Before I got the 850, I cut my 120 strips to four negatives and it is a similar situation for me. I kept my 4780 holders but they don't work. I was hoping to modify them but have not yet found exactly what to do. Any suggestions?

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography

bnorthr · Oct 16, 2020

jeffreyg said:
it is a similar situation for me

I knew I couldn't be the only one. The more I think about it, the less appealing it seems to modify my holders; it would be tricky work with plenty of room for disaster. For now, I have been scanning my negatives directly on the glass bed, and so far have not had issues with newton rings nor lack of focus (both of which plagued me on the v750). And it's kinda nifty to keep the film borders.

Chan Tran · Oct 16, 2020

For me I would simply cut the film. I don't have reason not to. But if I don't want to cut the film I would buy a scanner that can scan the whole roll.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 16, 2020

bnorthr said:
Today I set up my new Epson v850 Pro, and I noticed that they have changed the film holders since the v700/750 generation ... not entirely for the better. On the medium format frame in particular, the previous generation featured two slots for film, with a sort of tapered ramp at the end of each that allowed excess film to trail out of the scanner. The new holders feature only one film slot - which I don't mind - but a hard stop instead of a taper on both ends of the film area - which I do mind! I organize my film in Print File pages which sleeve the film long-ways across the page in three columns, allowing for ~10in film strips (perfect for 6×6 film, but there's always one pesky extra frame with 6×7). I assumed this was standard, though I have seen 4-row page variations instead of the 3-column layout. Thus, my film strips are too long for the new Epson holders. Like a genius, I tried closing the holder on top of my film anyways, and was rewarded with a crease in my film. Bah. I checked BetterScanning.com, and found that their holder is advertised as holding film up to 240mm long -- still too short. But I don't know if it allows for overflow.

Does anyone have experience working around this problem? It seems easiest to me to just forego the holder and scan directly on the glass (I am aware of the potential loss in sharpness). My other idea is to modify the frame I have to allow for film overflow, but it seems a complicated task, and the risk of accidentally leaving a sharp edge to scratch film is high. Of course I could buy an old v700/750 generation frame, but their height control is inferior (and, having just thrown all my money out for a v850, I'm not keen on turning out my pockets any further). I can't imagine I'm the only one to have hit this snag.

Same problem when I upgraded from the V600 to V850 when I started shooting 4x5. All my 6x7 film is cut 3-3-2-2. In the future I'll have to cut them 2-2-2-2-2 but they don't have plastic sheets holders for that and the pro lab I develop at won't cut them that way. What was Epson thinking? You'd think they'd get the film holder design right after all these years. Especially when the V850 cost so much.

I wonder if filing off the "stop" might work?

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 16, 2020

Did anyone ever contact Epson about this?

fs999 · Oct 19, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Same problem when I upgraded from the V600 to V850 when I started shooting 4x5. All my 6x7 film is cut 3-3-2-2. In the future I'll have to cut them 2-2-2-2-2 but they don't have plastic sheets holders for that and the pro lab I develop at won't cut them that way. What was Epson thinking? You'd think they'd get the film holder design right after all these years. Especially when the V850 cost so much.

I wonder if filing off the "stop" might work?

I use the Betterscanning holder with anr glass on my V500 and the holder is slightly too small for 3 6x7 shots, so I used a saw and removed 0.5 cm on the top side and 1 cm on the bottom side of the window, and it works !

bnorthr · Dec 19, 2020

Chan Tran said:
For me I would simply cut the film. I don't have reason not to. But if I don't want to cut the film I would buy a scanner that can scan the whole roll.

My hesitation with cutting the film is twofold: first, if it ever gets so dirty that I need to put it back in the film washer (god forbid, but it's happened when I was first starting in the darkroom) then I've found longer pieces are easier to wash. Second, it seems I get better results by taping my film to a piece of glass. Bigger pieces = less tape. I bought this scanner believing that, like its predecessor, I could use three-frame pieces. Little did I know ...

bnorthr · Dec 19, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
What was Epson thinking? You'd think they'd get the film holder design right after all these years. Especially when the V850 cost so much.

Honestly ... the holders became less usable from the last generation instead of other way around

bnorthr · Dec 19, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Did anyone ever contact Epson about this?

I have not, and I don't think I will. What would they do? Try to sell me more plastic tchotchkes, as likely as not.

bnorthr · Dec 19, 2020

fs999 said:
I use the Betterscanning holder with anr glass on my V500 and the holder is slightly too small for 3 6x7 shots, so I used a saw and removed 0.5 cm on the top side and 1 cm on the bottom side of the window, and it works !

Thanks! As I said, Betterscanning's dedicated medium format holders are too short for me, but I am considering buying their large "variable height mounting station." I'm glad to know their products work for you. Ah, the joys of spending even more money ...

Ariston · Dec 19, 2020

For large format, I put the film directly on the glass, then a piece of anti-glare glass on top of that. It works perfectly for me. Some say doing this can throw the focus off for the scanner, but I can see no difference, even when "grain peeping". Different scanners may have different tolerances from the factory, though.

I see no reason why you couldn't do the same for medium format. I have taped a placement template to the glass with masking tape, to ensure the film is straight.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 19, 2020

Ariston said:
For large format, I put the film directly on the glass, then a piece of anti-glare glass on top of that. It works perfectly for me. Some say doing this can throw the focus off for the scanner, but I can see no difference, even when "grain peeping". Different scanners may have different tolerances from the factory, though.

I see no reason why you couldn't do the same for medium format. I have taped a placement template to the glass with masking tape, to ensure the film is straight.

The V850 uses the less efficient lens to scan on the flatbed glass. You need to use the Epson film holder to activate the primary lens. That raises a question to those who use the Betterscanning holder. How do you get the primary lens to activate. The film holder has little holes on it that tell the machine which holder and film you're scanning. It seems that you might be using the secondary lens as well.

My film is too long to scan? Well I'm not cutting it

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