My developing set up

James Thorsen · May 27, 2019

GLS said:
+1

Thin, disposable nitrile gloves are a godsend when loading the reels (especially if using a changing bag). ANY perspiration on your hands will otherwise get on the film and will likely cause it to bind in the plastic reels; I learned this the hard way when I first started doing my own development.

I was planning on using high quality latex gloves that are a perfect fit for my hands. Will that be okay with film or are the nitrile gloves better for film? Keep the film dry while handling it in the bag - this is why I'm so happy I joined the forum - otherwise, I'd be panicking in the changing bag while unloading this thing!

GLS · May 27, 2019

James Thorsen said:
I was planning on using high quality latex gloves that are a perfect fit for my hands. Will that be okay with film or are the nitrile gloves better for film? Keep the film dry while handling it in the bag - this is why I'm so happy I joined the forum - otherwise, I'd be panicking in the changing bag while unloading this thing!

As far as I know latex shouldn't have any ill effects on the film, provided they are powder free. Nitrile gloves do offer better protection for you though, which is more relevant if you wear them whilst handling the chemicals (especially the more toxic types such as pyro developers).

MattKing · May 27, 2019

Let me repeat the advice to not use a squeegee. They are usually unnecessary - film + correctly diluted Photo-flo + decent water will dry evenly on its own, whereas film + squeegee = scratches in too many circumstances.
The advantage of nitrile gloves is that they are cheap and disposable and permit excellent "feel". Latex gloves will need to be kept clean and, in my experience, don't give the same tactile feedback when you are doing something like loading curly film in a changing bag. If you have a lot of experience doing fine work with latex gloves, they might be fine for you.
By the way, I wish you good luck with the changing bag. In 50+ years, I've never been able to make one work. One hint that some people use: put something inside the bag that keeps the inner space "open" and the bag itself off your hands. A properly sized inner frame or open ended cardboard box seems to work.

GLS · May 27, 2019

+1 on the no-squeegee. When the film is still wet the emulsion is soft and easy to damage; ideally nothing should touch it until it is dry.

I've never personally had an issue using a changing bag. However I can see "tenting" the bag in the way Matt describes being more useful when handling sheet film.

James Thorsen · May 27, 2019

GLS said:
+1 on the no-squeegee. When the film is still wet the emulsion is soft and easy to damage; ideally nothing should touch it until it is dry.

I've never personally had an issue using a changing bag. However I can see "tenting" the bag in the way Matt describes being more useful when handling sheet film.

I probably won’t squeegee after all. Thanks the advice. The devil is in the details.

Skeeterfx20 · May 27, 2019

I had to dismantle my darkroom but I never stopped developing my negatives. I used my bathroom to load film. I would wait until night then block the single window and made sure all the light were off in the house. This made for a very good open space to load my reels. It is a great darkroom with a built in seat, lol. Really getting a room in the house set up to load negatives is pretty easy. Some people like changing bags, I never did. Loading a feel reels in the evening was easy and fast.

James Thorsen · May 27, 2019

Maybe I’ll try one without the bag - if there’s no difference I don’t have a problem doing it at night.

Skeeterfx20 · May 27, 2019

Forgot to add should you squeegee? I have been doing it for so many years I lost count. You will find people are split on this subject. It works for me and I never once ruined a negative or had water spots. I sometimes use my fingers then other times the Patterson squeegee. IMHO you really have to work to ruin a negative with a squeegee.

So do you need to use one? Only you can answer that in the end. Don't take anyone's word pro or con as rule on this one.

GLS · May 27, 2019

If you do end up using a squeegee, make sure the rubber blades are *completely* clean. If you get a small piece of hard dirt/debris trapped on them it can score lines into the film.

jimjm · May 27, 2019

Developed film for 20 years and used a squeegee - never had a problem that I noticed. Until it finally happened. I didn't notice the scratches until I tried printing some frames.
If you use wetting agent or Photoflo, mixed with distilled water, there's zero reason to squeegee the film when you hang it to dry.

James Thorsen · May 27, 2019

Skeeterfx20 said:
Forgot to add should you squeegee? I have been doing it for so many years I lost count. You will find people are split on this subject. It works for me and I never once ruined a negative or had water spots. I sometimes use my fingers then other times the Patterson squeegee. IMHO you really have to work to ruin a negative with a squeegee.

So do you need to use one? Only you can answer that in the end. Don't take anyone's word pro or con as rule on this one.

Thanks - yeah, I think I'll experiment with doing in with my fingers and the squeegee and see what results I like better. I heard the thing with the squeegee is that you gotta be gentle.

StepheKoontz · May 27, 2019

GLS said:
+1

Thin, disposable nitrile gloves are a godsend when loading the reels (especially if using a changing bag). ANY perspiration on your hands will otherwise get on the film and will likely cause it to bind in the plastic reels; I learned this the hard way when I first started doing my own development.

That or cotton gloves, that's what I use.

mooseontheloose · May 28, 2019

GLS said:
+1 on the no-squeegee. When the film is still wet the emulsion is soft and easy to damage; ideally nothing should touch it until it is dry.

I've never personally had an issue using a changing bag. However I can see "tenting" the bag in the way Matt describes being more useful when handling sheet film.

Me neither. However I do remember (probably on this site) being recommended to get the largest changing bag I could to make things easier. Having since bought a smaller, thinner bag (for travel - infrared), I can confirm that a larger bag makes it so much easier to load film with little frustration.

GRHazelton · May 28, 2019

A couple thoughts. St Ansel found wooden spring clothespins to be his choice for hanging film to dry. I concur, they are cheap, and the grain in the wood helps to grip the film. And Paterson tanks and reels and the need for cleanliness. Lovely Flora, my wife, is happy to see them in the dishwasher. It does a fine job with no apparent ill effects. Of course as in all matters, YMMV.

MattKing · May 28, 2019

If you use a dishwasher to clean your reels, make sure you refrain from using a rinse aid at the end of the cycle.

Martin Rickards · May 28, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
As soon as you run out of that fixer, I’d recommend switching over to Ilford rapid fixer. You can mix up 500-600 ml and run 10-15 rolls through it before mixing up the next batch. If you want, you can even replenish it and your per roll waste goes way down.

I think there are few manufacturers of ammonium thiosulphate and photography is a fringe market for it. I'd hazard a guess that,apart from price, there's not much difference between Ilford's version and a budget fixer like Fomafix or Amfix.

James Thorsen · May 29, 2019

Ok - tonight I’m preparing for the development I’m doing tomorrow - getting stock solutions ready and setting up my area I will work - have a roll of film ready to be developed - one thing though, I noticed my Paterson tank is a bit taller than the ones I had seen in the videos. Will this effect anything? I wanna make sure my agitation technique is there - is there anything to consider with this tank?

Pentode · May 29, 2019

Just to beat a dead horse completely to a pulp: unless your water is really terrible, you shouldn't need to squeegee at all. With anything. Not a squeegee, not your fingers, nada.
Make sure you use the correct dilution for your Photo Flo and mix it with distilled water (it's the only chemical I bother to mix with distilled water) and water will bead right off of your film with no need to touch it and no risk of damage to the emulsion. If you find the film isn't drying cleanly, then you can worry about adding a squeegeeing step, but I'd start without it.

Make sure you wash your measuring beakers really well if you are going to use them for all your chemistry. I just use separate measures for each chemical and never use them for anything else. I have nice beakers now, but I started with cheap, 1L measuring cups from the 99-cent store and they worked just fine. Cross-contamination may not create a catastrophe, but it can make your results just inconsistent enough that you start to drive yourself nuts. Being a chef, keeping a clean work flow should come naturally to you anyway.

The suggestion to put a box in the changing bag to keep it free of your hands is an excellent one. It's fiddly enough loading film on a reel you can't see. No need to add another hinderance and cardboard boxes are free.

Adrian Bacon said:
...try to be consistent, and if you change anything, only change one thing at a time. Keep notes. I have a moleskin notebook that I use to log rolls developed, what I developed, what I used, and what I did. It’s handy to refer back to.

This might just be the best advice I've seen in this whole thread. When you're just starting out it doesn't really matter so much what your process is or what chemicals you choose. What matters much more is consistency. I never had consistent results until I started taking notes. Lots of 'em. I keep a really detailed log of every roll of film I develop and all of the conditions under which I developed it. It sounds OCD, but it's incredibly useful to have those notes. I refer back to them constantly. It really pays off.

And that whole having fun thing? That's pretty important, too!

Pentode · May 29, 2019

James Thorsen said:
Ok - tonight I’m preparing for the development I’m doing tomorrow - getting stock solutions ready and setting up my area I will work - have a roll of film ready to be developed - one thing though, I noticed my Paterson tank is a bit taller than the ones I had seen in the videos. Will this effect anything? I wanna make sure my agitation technique is there - is there anything to consider with this tank?

Paterson tanks are pretty foolproof. They've made a few versions over the years so I wouldn't worry if yours isn't identical to one in a video.
Agitation is a whole topic of discussion (hot debate?). Everybody finds a method that works for them and yours might evolve over time. For now, just try to make sure you do it as consistently as possible. Accurate timing and the same, identical motion every time. As long as you're moving the chemistry around in the tank in a fairly random pattern and not shaking it up like a martini you should be fine.

MattKing · May 29, 2019

Pentode said:
Paterson tanks are pretty foolproof. They've made a few versions over the years so I wouldn't worry if yours isn't identical to one in a video.
Agitation is a whole topic of discussion (hot debate?). Everybody finds a method that works for them and yours might evolve over time. For now, just try to make sure you do it as consistently as possible. Accurate timing and the same, identical motion every time. As long as you're moving the chemistry around in the tank in a fairly random pattern and not shaking it up like a martini you should be fine.

Continuing from this, the following is what I recommend to people. When you read through this, it helps to realize that it is far harder to describe than to actually do (or demonstrate!)
Pick up the tank and hold it between your hands, with the tank tipped over so its side is essentially parallel with the ground/sink/counter top.
Hold the top in the palm/fingers of one hand and the bottom in the palm/fingers of the other hand.
Now move your forearms and hands so that the top rotates to point up to the ceiling and the bottom rotates to point to the floor - take about one second to make that motion.
Now reverse that motion - move your forearms and hands so that the top ends up rotating to point down to the floor and the bottom ends up rotating to point to the ceiling - take about one and one-half seconds to make that motion.
It is almost like turning a steering wheel.
Now reverse that last motion once again, until the tank ends up upright again.
All in all, you will have just spent about 5 seconds agitating the tank and the solutions inside it.
For me, that is one sequence of agitation, because I use the Kodak (5 seconds each 30 seconds) scheme of agitation. If you prefer to use the Ilford scheme (10 seconds every minute) that works well as well - just repeat the sequence I described once again. Either scheme is fine, as long as you choose one, develop a comfortable speed and rhythm and do it repeatably.
Note how that series of movements naturally result in the tank (and your wrists) both inverting and rotating on the tank on its own axis. Together, that inversion and twisting gives you nice, random agitation at a comfortable level and velocity.
If you have put the right amount of solution in the tank, you will hear (and maybe feel) the solution tumbling through the reels and film. That is exactly what you want.
The role of agitation is to move partially spent chemicals off the surface of the film and replace them with fresher chemicals. Random movement is important - that is why using twist agitation alone is a source of potential problems.

James Thorsen · May 30, 2019

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NtQ3JjV8zA42mT8KA

So these are a few photos from the roll I developed. Everything went well - loading the film in the bag was very easy for me - it was getting it off when I was done developing that was a pain in the neck! Nearly destroyed a portion of my film by bending it out of place. Have to brush up on that - also my Paterson tank is so tall, I noticed it was towards the top of the tank when I opened it. Not quite sure if the film got the contact it needs or if it was submerged or not while it was in the tank.

I hope to shoot two more rolls on or before this coming Monday (My next day off). Gonna brush up on the stuff I noticed.

jimjm · May 30, 2019

Your reels should come apart by holding one side in each hand and twisting each in opposite directions. This is how to remove the film without damaging it.
Also, place an empty reel at the top of the center spindle to keep the bottom reel with the film from sliding up. If you don't have another reel, you can try wrapping a rubber band above the reel to keep it from sliding up.

GLS · May 30, 2019

Congrats.

I find the easiest way to get the film out of a Paterson reel is to simply twist the two halves apart. This avoids having to pull the film back out of the tracks, and thereby possibly damaging it.

It looks like you have a lot of drying marks on the film. You may either be using too much wetting agent for the final wash (i.e. the residues are dried wetting agent), or not enough wetting agent (i.e. the residues are mineral deposits from the tap water).

Pentode · May 30, 2019

Well done! It looks like you got very good results. It will only get easier from here.

jimjm said:
Your reels should come apart by holding one side in each hand and twisting each in opposite directions.

GLS said:
I find the easiest way to get the film out of a Paterson reel is to simply twist the two halves apart.

By far the easiest way to deal with unloading Paterson reels.

jimjm said:
you can try wrapping a rubber band above the reel to keep it from sliding up.

I used an empty reel for ages until somebody tipped me to this trick. It seems so obvious but it never occurred to me.

GLS said:
It looks like you have a lot of drying marks on the film. You may either be using too much wetting agent for the final wash (i.e. the residues are dried wetting agent), or not enough wetting agent (i.e. the residues are mineral deposits from the tap water).

Did you use distilled water for the Photo Flo? It makes a big difference, especially if you live in a hard water area.

GLS · May 30, 2019

Pentode said:
Did you use distilled water for the Photo Flo? It makes a big difference, especially if you live in a hard water area.

If you are going to the trouble and expense of using distilled (deionised) water for the final wash, then in my experience adding 5% of high purity IPA works better than traditional wetting agents (PhotoFlo, Ilfotol etc), as it leaves no residues at all.

My developing set up

James Thorsen

GLS

MattKing

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GLS

James Thorsen

Skeeterfx20

James Thorsen

Skeeterfx20

GLS

jimjm

James Thorsen

StepheKoontz

mooseontheloose

GRHazelton

MattKing

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Martin Rickards

James Thorsen

Pentode

Pentode

MattKing

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James Thorsen

jimjm

GLS

Pentode

GLS

My developing set up

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