My c41 mask is green?

[bill williams]

I have been developing c41 with Kodak Flexicolor for a long time but I've lately ended up having a couple of rolls of 35mm that have a green mask(same density as an orange mask in the unexposed frames and rebate). Is this likely due to a contaminated reel and tank, or to bad developer? The first 3 blank frames are uniformly green, the exposed frames are pretty much the correct colors except in the shadows, and the mask and rebate after the exposures begin is pretty much orange at the bottom of the film and gets more green nearer the top of the film. I've cleaned the tank and reel with kodak tray cleaner, and then let it soak in water overnight, but still have the same green mask even with a different developer kit. ??? Anyone have a suggestion? Thanks!

 

[epatsellis]

Tell me more about your bleach, are you reusing, aerating/regenerating?

 

[nickrapak]

Didn't develop it myself, but I've had a few rolls that ended up with a green mask. The films were expired for a few years and stored at room temp since expiration.

 

[bill williams]

Film is definitely good. Bleach is a fresh batch from a 5 gallon kit that is about 3 years old, but will bleach undeveloped strips with exposed and unexposed areas just fine. I believe it is in the developer. Today I will use a new developer kit with the same tank and the same bleach. I had just hoped that someone could tell me the mechanism that was bad before I opened a new kit and used another roll of film. Thanks.

 

[epatsellis]

Bill, it may sound silly, and you probably don't have any or a denstiometer, but a control strip would help narrow down the problem

 

[bill williams]

Unfortunately, neither is available. The Kodak C41 troubleshooting for Flexicolor points me in the direction of the bleach. Either carry over products from the developer or something up with the bleach is possibly causing a stain?? I'll make up more bleach and see if that works.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sounds like fog to me!

PE

 

[bill williams]

I might add: I made up a C41 developer with the Flexicolor Part A and Part B but with dry CD4 for Part C, thinking the Flexicolor Part C is bad. I developed test strips in this developer in a different tank and then put it in the bleach that I'd been using. I got what I'd call perfectly good negatives, in that the mask was fine, and the density and balance matched a Gold 100 Shirley negative I have. I printed the test negative and it printed very well. So, I went and loaded up another roll of film in the old tank and processed it in the Part A Part B CD4 developer I'd just mixed and then again the same bleach and I got the darn green mask again. Puzzling.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have some news for you!

Part C is not just CD-4, it is the sulfite + a few other things. So, the formula was way out of whack! Good luck.

PE

 

[PHOTOTONE]

The green usually indicates fog.

 

[bill williams]

Yes, PE, I know that it isn't just CD4, but it will work somewhat ok for at least one roll. It was an attempt to try to isolate either the bleach or the developer as a problem source.

The scan attached is from a stip developed with the full Flexicolor kit and the Bleach III and the Flexicolor Fix. All entirely Kodak mix. The scan is not corrected in any way. The same results are had even if from different films shot in different cameras and in fresh mixes of the chemicals. I'm leaning towards PE's suggestion of fogging. Please notice that in each exposed frame the green mask isn't uniform but it is pretty uniform in the blank frames.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, the pH and sulfite levels would be off to start with and then in the image it looks like severe fog from a red or tungsten lamp or bad keeping. It is hard to tell. The overall density and contrast look off as well. The unexposed frame should be black or at least much darker meaning that the dmin is very high.

PE

 

[bill williams]

Thanks PE. I'll look for a possible source for fogging as I'm sure that must be it.

I tried the dry CD4 because I don't want to crack the seals on a new developer kit until I'm sure whether or not the one I'm working from is bad. I looked at a couple of formulas for C41 before using the CD4, and I knew it wouldn't be something I'd put important film in for processing, but the pH was close, and it produced a negative suitable for troubleshooting such a visible problem as I have. I'm sure it wouldn't do for anything less visible.

 

[bob100684]

In a lab, I saw it a couple times on extremely old expired film when our control strips had shown the process was in balance. One time though, a control strip came out green and kinda sparkly looking, re-mixed the bleach and fix and that was the problem

 

[bill williams]

Ok. Another roll, and with a check of lights out in the 'darkroom', I see no signs of light. But, I'm convinced that it is fogging, and the reason why I'm convinced is that the leader and the first frame pretty much make up the circumference of the film developing reel in the middle of the reel. This area is the area that has the most evident green mask. The remaining frames are only slightly affected more as you travel down from the top of the film strip. So, the top of the film and the leader are the parts receiving the most fog and those parts are the most exposed to light when wound onto the developing reel and in the tank(open tank, I'm developing in the dark in open tanks). Now, if I can just see the light.

 

[bill williams]

Dummy me. I'd changed two things: where I had placed the patterson tank that held the film loaded on the reel until the developer temperature was correct, which was a very dark spot in the cabinet under the sink, and how long I'd taken to get the developer temperature to the 100.5. As it turns out, the red ring around the top of a patterson tank will allow some RED light thru it. The last few times I'd developed film, i'd left the tank in a dark corner, but not in the cabinet with the door closed. And, I'd been slow about getting it in the developer. Thanks for everyone's input, especially about fogging.

 

[mts]

That's why they make stainless steel tanks and reels. Some plastic tanks transmit IR well enough to cause similar problems with EKIR and 2481.

 

[dmr]

Did you develop it on March 17 by chance?