Moving to NZ

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liza

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My son just been granted citizenchip in NZ and that means, me joining him on a permanent base.
BUT this brings up some questions.
Availability to trad. darkroom in Auckland (north shore) area?
I have a fully equipped pro darkroom here in Sweden that I hate to sell off for nothing or as I suspect, have to throw away (all is digital). Our house is far too small without basement so I wonder if there is a market for some of it in NZ.
Next problem, all my chemicals! Many are totally lethal as for Mordancage process. How do I get them throu customs to be abel to continue with alternative processes.
Tried to undestand NZ import laws but uhhh.
I have to start asking those questions now already even if it gonna take at least 18 months until the plane takes off.
Eva
 

rayonline_nz

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I am from NZ. :smile:

I don't know about Auckland. Wellington here, all I know is a lab that a group of guys maintain. I don't know any commercial rent out darkroom. In terms of the market here to buy darkroom equipment, little I guess. Sure if you have a Jobo film processor might get some bids but generally it is low here. Chemistry by way of film developers are about 2x the price of B&H in the USA. You walk in the store and they are on the bottom shelf with dust.

You might to ask www.customs.govt.nz re: liquid. But many freight delivery might not accept? Airlines not accept? One time I did ask about E6 chemistry for the home user, basically got nowhere. One said ok, but they do 1/4 yearly shipments.

I have yet to come across a online forum that the guys have an interest in film photography. As you know the film cost can be at least 2x or close to 3x. One roll of b/w film for 35mm sell for about $12US. One roll of 35mm slide film sell for about $25US. Processing is about $13US for slides, C41 is about $6US equiv, black and white might be $10US with XTOL.

Auckland seems to be 2. One might be a traditional darkroom lab services only. One other is by Auckland University for a group of enthusiasts.

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/on-ca...gories/arts-culture/photographic-society.html

http://www.jennytomlin.co.nz/

Apart from that yeah ... some camera clubs might have a small group of people who maintain their own space?
 
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Down Under

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I live in Australia but travel to New Zealand (NZ for short). My thoughts for you. I cannot assist with Mordancage as I know nothing about it. So my comments will be entirely 'trad' film and paper processing.

First, do you plan to use film in NZ? If you intend to go entirely D or specialist process rather than film, it may not be feasible to ship secondhand darkroom gear halfway round the world to then just sell it. After the shipping costs and bearing in mind the low value of the NZ dollar, you will most likely lose a bundle.

Everything related to photography is super expensive in NZ, even compared to Australia,where prices are more reasonable, but still high.

It may or may not be relevant to you, but the film photographers I know in Auckland have all found ways to get their B&W and color processing done in Australia.

Keeping in mind the above, if you plan to ship furnishings and other effects over by sea, consider taking the best of your darkroom equipment, sell the rest. Also sell your chemicals, as taking these won't be worth the bother of the bureaucratic hassles you will have.

Stock up on film. Take as much as you can afford and what will be allowed in NZ.

I moved to Oz from the USA in 1980 with an entire darkroom, at a time when shipping costs were much lower. I would never ever do it again, it took me almost a year to sort out the problems with government agencies in Australia. I believe NZ is even more bureaucratic.

I still have a full 'trad' darkroom at home, and I mix my developers from raw chemicals, which I buy from Vanbar in Melbourne (they have an OL catalogue) or from swimming pool stockists. My preferred B&W film developer, Kodak D76, is inexpensive to buy prepacked and dirt cheap to mix myself. Also Thornton's two bath film developer and my trio of old paper developers (I still use Kodak D72 which I find different from Dektol), all brewed at home. I buy fixers as liquids. Not sure if you can take raw chemicals into NZ from AUS. I wouldn't even try. Vanbar OL may be able to advise on this.

Will you be occasionally traveling to Australia? Film (expensive), chemicals (reasonably priced), printing paper are available in Melbourne and Sydney. Be sure to check to determine what and in what quantities you will be able to take back with you from AUS.

New Zealand is not Europe or North America and a major lifestyle change such as you are planning will involve effort and most likely some heartache, but in return you can have a wonderful new life, and you can do some good photography of new subjects. It's a beautiful country with Kodachrome views at almost every turn if you shoot landscapes. I don't - the Velveeta Pretty Scenery style is not my style, so my travels there have been mostly camera free. I enjoy the laid back Kiwi lifestyle, food is exceptionally good, and a few of their wines are notable if somewhat overpriced to Aussies. You will find New Zealanders to be among the friendliest and most pleasant of Westerners I have encountered in my travels, as much so as Canadians, with whom they are often compared culturally.

Planning a new life is an exciting process. I wish you every success.
 

Toyo

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Hello ozmoose,
Sorry to veer off at a tangent, but I tried to start a conversation with you via messaging, and was prevented by the forum somehow.
So here we go here
I could not help but notice in your reply to "Moving to NZ" that you brew your own developers.
"..........still have a full 'trad' darkroom at home, and I mix my developers from raw chemicals, which I buy from Vanbar in Melbourne (they have an OL catalogue) or from swimming pool stockists. My preferred B&W film developer, Kodak D76, is inexpensive to buy prepacked and dirt cheap to mix myself. Also Thornton's two bath film developer and my trio of old paper developers (I still use Kodak D72 which I find different from Dektol), all brewed at home. I buy fixers as liquids."
I am particularly interested in the Thornton two bath developer and was wondering about the formula and the recipe. You mentioned that you sourced your chemistry from Vanbar and pool shops.
If you don't mind sharing, would you be kind enough to let me know the details.
Thanks in advance
Tom in Oz
 

Kevin Caulfield

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The Thornton two bath formula is provided in his "Edge of Darkness". It contains only three ingredients - metol, sodium sulphite and sodium metaborate. I will post the formula if nobody else jumps in first.
 

Down Under

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Thank you, Kevin. Yes, please post the formula for others to use. I have the three variationsof this formula, but not immediately to hand.

There is a lot of information on this developer on the late Barry Thornton's web site which can easily be Googled. I have a document somewhere with my own extensive notes on Thornton's and other two bath developers, some of which go back to the 1930s, and I will email this to Toyo - as soon as I can find it, which may be a few days.

You are truly fortunate to have a copy of 'Edge of Darkness', I have been ;ooking for one for a long time. I have just now realised it may still be available via the Thornton web site, and I will check this.

Toyo, I'm looking into why your email to me didn't come through, and I will fix this if I can.
 

rayonline_nz

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NZ - to give you the scale in Wellington. There used to be a Kodak Q Lab that process slides - they had a few branches thru he main cities of NZ including Auckland and Wellington and Christchurch and even Dunedin I think. That is now gone. Got bought up, still with the same name. Their lamda machine I heard the part was too $$ so they didn't bother to replace and fix it. Drum scanners may have been given up too. Slide processing is gone and the new owners took them in for their digital printing expertise. There is a very few labs here meaning 2 or 3 no more than 5. They only did or do C41, even 10yrs ago yes they had E6 prices but they send them away to be processed. You have pro shops selling pro gear and E6 film that do not process E6. Due to the Christchurch earthquake one of the labs there sold a Fuji machine that did slides I think, so a pro shop here bought it.

There used to be a former pro photographer who set up a lab that processes film for people. C41, E6 and B/W. That has also now shut up shop, it was multiple reasons I heard from personal reasons. But before they closed, the owner had to suspend runs and do them each week or each fortnight because there was simply not enough business and the chemistry going bad.

If I were to shoot off a roll of C41. I have to drive to the CBD to have a store process it. Our local mall used to have 2 mini labs they are both now closed. The last one closed least 5 or 8yrs ago.
 

Kevin Caulfield

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Thank you, Kevin. Yes, please post the formula for others to use. I have the three variationsof this formula, but not immediately to hand.

There is a lot of information on this developer on the late Barry Thornton's web site which can easily be Googled. I have a document somewhere with my own extensive notes on Thornton's and other two bath developers, some of which go back to the 1930s, and I will email this to Toyo - as soon as I can find it, which may be a few days.

You are truly fortunate to have a copy of 'Edge of Darkness', I have been ;ooking for one for a long time. I have just now realised it may still be available via the Thornton web site, and I will check this.

Toyo, I'm looking into why your email to me didn't come through, and I will fix this if I can.

Okay, here's the Thornton's two bath formula -

Bath A

Water 750 ml
Metol 6.5 g
Sodium Sulphite 80 g
Water to 1 litre

Bath B

Water 750 ml
Sodium Metaborate 12 g
Water to 1 litre
 

Down Under

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Good-o. My apology to the OP for having hijacked her thread, 'tho it seems back on track now.

Good info from rayonline_nz on the current situation re film processing over there, this may make the OP decide to take her darkroom with her. Others will be better placed than I to advise if there would be any sort of market for her to sell the gear in Auckland, if she decides to do that.

Is there possibly a market for an Australian lab to offer a postal processing service to NZ? I say this not knowing how Customs there treat such services from overseas. Is it difficult for New Zealanders to post their films to Australia? Is it safe for them to do so? Would there be duty applicable when the processed film is returned? I am just thinking out loud at this point, but I will be interested in responses, if any, from film shooters over there.

Otherwise,there is also a good lesson for us to read and heed here (Australia), about the dangers of what could happen if we neglect our processing outlets. Over here, at least in Melbourne, we are much better served by film labs, but the day may come when the good ones have to shut up shop for lack of custom. I for one hope that won't happen...
 
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As much as I love the enduringly beautiful New Zealand landscape — particularly the South Island, New Zealand does not cater well at all for analogue photographers and never has. The shift away was happening back in 2005 when at Otago University (Dunedin) analogue was phased out in favour of digital. I had film processed there and it was the last processing job done. Dunedin has photographic shops, but their movers and shakers are digital. I had to buy a compact digital in Queenstown in 2005 when my XA stopped working. Not the slimmest of chances of picking up anything film-related in Q-Town!!

There are several photographers in Dunedin, Christchurch and Invercargill who send their work to Melbourne for processing at VanBar or Michaels (especially). Air travel is such that Christchurch and Dunedin are now commuter day trips or unhurried overnighters. The only downside is the turnaround; where once E6 had a 3 to 6 hour turnaround, it is now around 5 to 7+ days, with increasing cost depending on urgency. Printing is also carried out in Melbourne (Michaels, PRISM, Bond Imaging). This isn't going to change; the photography demographic of our near neighbour is not the same as in Australia; a smaller population (more concentrated in the North of the country), a very different sociographic mix and more dispersed retailing profiles all have a role in the demise of analogue. As has been stated, Wellington's lab is a good start, but for how long into the future is not known. They picked up the machinery from the store that was damaged in Papanui/Christchurch after the earthquake. Christchurch is "Box City": interesting to wander around, but also a lesson on building a big English-themed city at the junction of two active fault lines!

I really think the OP is making the wrong decision, almost "chasing windmills". Let the prodigal son live in NZ, but if the darkroom and darkroom practice is important to you, forget about moving it all to New Zealand, it just will not work. New Zealand's aqua (fishing) and agriculture is stringently protected; chemical waste is also monitored and licensed. You cannot just pour the used junk down the drain; the licensing alone would cost a king's ransom. They won't even take Australian apples without a hissy fit. But we take their avocados (but of course!!). And their wine (+10)!
 
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Mick Fagan

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So you are moving to NZ, fine, the houses, as you are now aware, do not generally have cellars, so finding space for a darkroom is a bit of an issue, but not impossible.

You mention that you have a fully equipped professional darkroom, if at all possible, take the really good stuff that you may somehow find a way to use in NZ. I believe you will not regret taking any equipment with you to NZ.

Purchasing darkroom equipment in Australia is not that easy, but it is certainly a lot harder in NZ. I would suggest if it is viable to bring your stuff out from Sweden, do so. When my wife emigrated from her native Germany (almost 30 years ago) she brought most of her furniture, books, clothing, electrical and photographic equipment. Think electrical kitchen stuff, like food mixers, food blenders and anything else.

NZ and Australia, like Sweden, run 230V at 50 Hz frequency, so you should have no issues apart from the actual plug and maybe, just maybe, earthing of some appliances. If you have excess equipment that is able to be brought to NZ, perhaps you could do a bit of a list, post it on APUG, (maybe even this thread) and see if there are any takers for some of your equipment. But seriously, I would really see if you can manage to squeeze things in to what will probably be an interesting living situation.

As for your special process, Mordoncage, well I don’t think finding sources for the chemicals will be that hard.

I did a single search for Copper Chloride in NZ and immediately came up with this.

http://www.crescendo.co.nz/Education/Science/StringSearch.aspx?SearchString=copper chloride&Page=1

Clicking on the middle item, Copper Chloride II 100g, it states, end user certificate: No, approved handler: No, Permit, Not required, Dangerous Goods 8. I may be reading that incorrectly, but I would suggest this is a reasonably easy material to obtain.

The Hydrogen Peroxide, just ask one of the many bottle blondes walking the streets where their favourite beauty parlor is.

Glacial Acetic acid should be able to be obtained, the amounts you may or may need shouldn’t be so huge that it will be a problem.

As for other darkroom chemicals, you could use Vanbar (based in Melbourne) or perhaps somewhere else from around the world. Melbourne is only 3½ hours by aeroplane from Auckland. In the last two weeks I have seen two NZ shopping tours in Melbourne. The shopping tours are where a group, usually travelling around Melbourne in Toyota 12 seater buses visiting factory shopping outlets, or in the case of one tour bus I met, visiting Chadstone shopping centre for purchasing fashion products.

Also about 1 hour drive from Melbourne in Trentham East next march (2017), Elizabeth Opelenik will be doing workshops on Mordoncage.

http://www.elizabethopalenik.com/#mi=1&pt=0&pi=13&p=-1&a=0&at=0

In that workshop students will be mixing the chemicals and doing the process. So it is not that unheard of a practice in these parts of the world. You may wish to email Ellie Young who essentially is Gold Street Studios and ask whether she can supply the chemistry you may find hard to obtain, or where she purchases her chemistry for pointers of what to do.

http://www.goldstreetstudios.com.au/workshops/

All is not lost, think positive. It will be hard and maybe harrowing, but I am sure it will be good if you can keep as much as possible of your equipment. But best of all, you should be able to keep doing what you like doing, which seems to be Mordoncage.

If ever you are in Melbourne, I would like to meet up with you.

Mick.
 
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liza

liza

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Kind of depressive reading but no surprice. Thanks for your comments, even the hijacking one :smile: it was intresting and useful.
When I visited my son last year we tried to find shops for film, chemicals etc but with no luck.
In all, I think I have to reconsider keeping up trad photography and with a heavy, reluctant heart - move to digital.
BUT I wont give up just yet, hopefully someone see this thead and reply " Hi I got a lab you can use".......
 

Geoffrey Swan

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rayonline_nz

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Is it difficult for New Zealanders to post their films to Australia? Is it safe for them to do so? Would there be duty applicable when the processed film is returned? I am just thinking out loud at this point, but I will be interested in responses, if any, from film shooters over there.

I have been importing film from the USA (Freestyle and B&H) for some time now and exporting my E6 film to the USA using the recommendation labs advised on photography forums for a few years. No issues at all, no lost parcels, touch wood. Re: using USA overseas labs. My postal there and back have been insured but not signature tracked. 10 rolls there is about $10US and back is about $35US.

Re: purchasing film. B&H used to be min post cost of ~$40 but now provides more affordable $7US post to NZ for about 1 or 2 propacks (2x 5 rolls), Freestyle is a bit better if you wanna purchase a bit more rolls for $12 or $17US (2 post sizes). In NZ the cost for film is generally 3x. The lab is generally 2x without mounting.

Typically 2 week delivery from the USA - standard'ish international priority mail. Express would be 24-48hrs.

Re: tax and customs. If you want to escape import tax get it under no more than $200US. Ie your film cost purchase or any equipment or your return developed film (the declared amount). $200US is about $300NZ and based on our 15% GST that is $45NZ which is just under $50 to escape the threshold. If you have to pay tax it will be held at Auckland Airport and only released (delivered/forwarded) to you until you paid (credit card via phone or bank deposit whatever). Not USPS but freight companies like Fedex and UPS generally call you up before it arrives into NZ and they accept payment on behalf of the NZ government so that is a bit more speedy. If it is USPS you may get a phonecall or an email from NZ Customs. They normally follow-up with a snail mail also.

With help and advice on here, I didn't send my film to Australia because the USA was still cheaper and they provided mounting service. I had never did mounting myself and all up it was still more costly.

Or alternatively when one goes overseas to Asia or to the North America to bring back some packs of powder chemistry (assuming they can be carried on the plane maybe not the liquids) and photo film and paper. Good for those who are not heavy users.

PS - there is one darkroom in Wellington I know that they hire out by the hour $15NZ or $10US etc or maybe that was $20US can't recall. That Auckland University in Auckland. I read about fire damage. Not sure if still available. Yes there are not much cellars here. An old timer I know who has his own darkroom made/built his own darkroom behind the garage which is internal access (connected) to his home - like The Simpsons.
 
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liza

liza

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sooo, I stock up on film, develove it on site and then scan and print.......
 
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