Moving to 4x5

[mr. mohaupt]

I pulled the trigger and am now waiting on its arrival. In the mean time I started doing a lot of research on tray developing and other things to help me transition from 6x7 to 4x5. It seems that there are a lot of these treads so I thought I would put together a list of links that I have thus far found useful.

If you have any suggestion or links to add PLEASE do!

Loading 4x5 film holders by Paul Butzi:
http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm

Processing Sheet film in Trays (special thanks to Doremus Scudder, your description great these videos made me understand what you were trying to say)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBE7770A1485C3981&feature=plcp

Film Data Index with Notch Codes (not sure how complete it is):
http://photondetector.com/tools_ref/filmdata/

Lastly this site! It has been very helpful and I appreciate all of the users and moderators. Again if you have any suggestions my Speed will not be here until next week and I am trying gain as much info to help me as possible.

~M

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You forgot a great one, www.largeformatphotography.info

 

[holmburgers]

An alternative to tray developing.

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[grahamp]

Development falls into a few broad categories - tray, tube, spiral, and deep tank, with a number of variations within each (open trays/sloshers, Jobo, Combi-Plan/Deep tanks and hangers). Everyone has a favourite

Unless you plan on using many film types, the actual notch code is not that important. I have trouble 'reading' them in the dark anyway, apart from working out the emulsion side. Just work with one emulsion type at a time.

Don't forget some sleeves for the processed film. Usually individual envelopes rather than sheets at 5x4 and up.

Graham

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I only add this: Be very careful if you buy or obtain LF film in the UK. i.e. we use 4x5 but they use 5x4.

 

[X. Phot.]

May be useful . . .
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> The Print
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[Perry Way]

BTZS Tubes are a huge step up from tray developing (though you'll still be tray fixing) and can be done mostly in the light. I will never tray develop again. You get 6 tubes and a large tray/tank you float the tubes in and rotate them with your fingertips. Works actually very well and much faster to handle than using the Jobo 4x5 reels (loading the reels fully - with 6 sheets per reel - is problematic for a lot of people)

 

[jp498]

You will want to keep your film dust free from film box till processing. This is often overlooked in the how-to's. I wasted a bunch of film and ruined a couple nice photos learning this. I use anti-static bags for the film holders. Other people have clean containers or lunch coolers to keep film holders in.

I keep processed film in printfile pages just like smaller formats. You may also need a bigger enlarger or scanner depending on what you have. Enlargers and el-lenses are dirt cheap used.

 

[LJH]

BTZS Tubes... much faster to handle than using the Jobo 4x5 reels (loading the reels fully - with 6 sheets per reel - is problematic for a lot of people)

Perhaps for the 2XXX tanks, but I would argue the 3006 is the easiest product to load in this arena.

Price, though, could be prohibative.

 

[Pioneer]

BTZS Tubes are a huge step up from tray developing (though you'll still be tray fixing) and can be done mostly in the light. I will never tray develop again. You get 6 tubes and a large tray/tank you float the tubes in and rotate them with your fingertips. Works actually very well and much faster to handle than using the Jobo 4x5 reels (loading the reels fully - with 6 sheets per reel - is problematic for a lot of people)

Everyone seems to have their favorite method for developing their film. I use the Jobo system for my 4x5 film because I have 3 reels and can develop up to 12 frames at one time. But loading film in the reels is a bit tedious and you have to be careful not to cross load in the slots. That is not a problem with BTZS tubes, loading them is super simple. One sheet of film rolled and slid into one tube. Cap it and you are loaded. I use the BTZS tubes for my 8x10 film and they certainly are convenient.

 

[Roger Cole]

BTZS Tubes are a huge step up from tray developing (though you'll still be tray fixing) and can be done mostly in the light. I will never tray develop again. You get 6 tubes and a large tray/tank you float the tubes in and rotate them with your fingertips. Works actually very well and much faster to handle than using the Jobo 4x5 reels (loading the reels fully - with 6 sheets per reel - is problematic for a lot of people)

I'm not knocking the BTZS system. It does look quite workable and a big step up from trays, at least in ease. But loading the Jobo 2901n reels is trivially easy. Much, MUCH easier than loading any 35mm or 120 reel I've ever loaded. I use Jobo for roll film too and find them the easiest to load I've ever used, but the 4x5 is easier.

Everyone seems to have their favorite method for developing their film. I use the Jobo system for my 4x5 film because I have 3 reels and can develop up to 12 frames at one time. But loading film in the reels is a bit tedious and you have to be careful not to cross load in the slots. That is not a problem with BTZS tubes, loading them is super simple. One sheet of film rolled and slid into one tube. Cap it and you are loaded. I use the BTZS tubes for my 8x10 film and they certainly are convenient.

Are you folks who find loading the sheets into the Jobo 2509(n) reels difficult or tedious using the 2508 loader base and film guide? I've read other people saying they used it once and quit, that loading by hand was just as easy, but I find mine quite difficult to load without it and a piece of cake with it. I like it so much, with them discontinued, I bought a spare. Actually that's not really true, I got a second in a package deal with some tanks I bought, but I'm hanging on to both of them.

Maybe it's just me but I find it extremely easy to load using the loader base. A tad slower maybe but not much and that's more than a welcome trade off since it's so easy.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

With practice I find the 2509 reel using the 2508 loader base a breeze. Tedious the first few times but really no more difficult in the end that it took me to get even a basic 35mm film reel loaded my first time as a 13 year old!

 

[Roger Cole]

With practice I find the 2509 reel using the 2508 loader base a breeze. Tedious the first few times but really no more difficult in the end that it took me to get even a basic 35mm film reel loaded my first time as a 13 year old!

I agree. Curve the film slightly along the long axis as you guide it in. Use your other hand to make sure it doesn't jump the guides on the reel. After loading, gently feel the ends to make sure all sheets are in different slots. Very easy. Not quite as easy, I imagine, as plopping sheets into an Expert drum or BTZS tube, but if you can load a 35mm reel you can certainly load the 2509n with the loader base. Probably without it too but it was easier with it so I gave up practicing without it.

 

[PhotoJim]

I use the 2509/2508. I haven't used it a lot, but I find it to be pretty simple as long as I remember to use my left hand to ensure that the film has made the transition from the loading slot to the actual reel. I can fill the reel with sheets in not much more than a minute when things are going well.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use the Jobo 3010 Expert Tank to process up to ten 4"x5" negatives at a time. The results are always great.

 

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

At the risk of disagreeing with some, I admit to liking HP CombiPlan tanks for smaller volumes of 4x5. The only time when I had issues with sheets slipping was when I still had the unnecessary blue shims installed. As soon as I got rid of the blue shims (apparently included by mistake by the factory) even very vigorous 5 inversions across two planes in 5 seconds, every 30 sec, works well for me. Even tested violent shaking in all directions for 30s to 1min with HP5+ and FP4, successfully, though TMax 100 slipped a notch in that test. What helps is to make sure the retainer is on properly, not pressing on top of the sheets too hard, not loose either. I push it on, then relax it and let it find it's own position.

They are a bit slow to empty, 23 seconds, but I'm getting even development for 8+ mins dev durations. Get your hands on one before they disappear, as they have been, sadly, just discontinued... Alternatively, the Jobo Experts are super. And a new CPP-3 processor is on its way later this year, but at a price.

 

[mwdake]

I only add this: Be very careful if you buy or obtain LF film in the UK. i.e. we use 4x5 but they use 5x4.

No wonder I could not get that English film to load in my film holders.
Now I'll have to track down some English film holders.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

No wonder I could not get that English film to load in my film holders.
Now I'll have to track down some English film holders.

Look for the taller ones.

 

[Roger Cole]

No wonder I could not get that English film to load in my film holders.
Now I'll have to track down some English film holders.

Just turn it sideways. It works fine if you load it sideways.

The HP Combi-plan has been discontinued, BTW. There's a thread about it by Bob S. from HP over on the Large Format Photography Forum. There may still be some available though, plus used ones. Jobo stuff is (maybe temporarily as they are supposed to be bringing back an improved processor) discontinued too but easy enough to find with some looking.

 

[Perry Way]

Jobo stuff is (maybe temporarily as they are supposed to be bringing back an improved processor) discontinued too but easy enough to find with some looking.

Wow, really? Amazing. And I thought the company and product line bit the dust. I wonder if they get going again if they will continue to supply parts for their previous incantations.

 

[LJH]

Jobo stuff is (maybe temporarily as they are supposed to be bringing back an improved processor) discontinued too but easy enough to find with some looking.

I know that the Processors were discontinued; however, you can still get new tanks if you know where to look.

And they are a lot cheaper than the bullsh#t prices some are asking on eBay.

 

[Roger Cole]

There's a thread either here or the LFPF about the planned new processor, slightly upgraded version of the CPP2, price "under $3k" if I remember correctly, which probably means $2999 if they hit the price point. Pricey, but still.. the old one was about $2k new years ago, wasn't it?

I'll see if I can find the thread.

 

[Roger Cole]

Here you go:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[CatLABS]

Wow, really? Amazing. And I thought the company and product line bit the dust. I wonder if they get going again if they will continue to supply parts for their previous incantations.

Jobo parts, drums and any other Jobo gear is generally available, has and will be in the future, regardless of their plans to bring a new processor into production late this year or next year.

There are a few resources in the US for parts and drums (as well as a plethora of used gear on ebay...) - check this out to name one:
http://processorparts.blogspot.com/

 

[dpurdy]

A great learning tool for 4x5 is shooting Fujiroid. Get one of those pack type polaroid backs and invest some money in instant fuji film. Then go around willy nilly taking pictures of anything and everything for awhile and get the instant feedback. This will make you comfortable using the camera.
Dennis