Moving from 35mm and DSLR!

Hi there..

I currently use a 35mm compact and a canon DSLR... however I am looking to expand into film (analog) photography
I have about £500 (when I sell one of my DSLR lenses!)

so I am now looking at getting a MF camera, for landscape, flower and some portrait photography.

I am not after a square format (eg 6x6).. so I think that rules Blad out :confused:
so maybe 645 or maybe 6 x 7

however I am after one with built in light metering...
so I was wondering which cameras are reasonable...
and also what film I should use to start with, and what film to move to once I have got going.

also, what type of tripod head is best to use?
I am currently using a 3 way pan and tilt head with 5Kg limit
Mannfrotto (Bogen) 390 RC2

any help is appreciated

Will

Try Portra for portraits and Ektar for colorful things.

I've looked at the Pentax 645 system. There's an autofocus system and a cheaper MF version. The only limitation of the MF version is the limited manual exposure/compensation.

pentax or mamiya 645.
if you want 6x7, choice is easy, go with the mamiya rz67. well priced, quality lenses. people will tell you it's heavy but all the 6x7 cameras within your price range are going to be heavy. the rz is a system with lots of options, and lots of support if you need parts/repairs

apconan said:

pentax or mamiya 645.
if you want 6x7, choice is easy, go with the mamiya rz67. well priced, quality lenses. people will tell you it's heavy but all the 6x7 cameras within your price range are going to be heavy. the rz is a system with lots of options, and lots of support if you need parts/repairs

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick replies..

I have had a quick look at prices of those cameras, and they seem ok for me!

Support/repairs are important to me.. so the RZ67 seems good.
as for weight, 2.5 Kg is not too bad (same as my current DSLR Telephoto setup

what focal length lens is best to start with? mainly for landscapes?

also, what viewfinder is best to start with? I am used to eye level, but a waist level finder would be a fun challenge!?!?!

as for a manual exposure camera... I have a DSLR... so could I use that to calculate exposure, and use settings on MF camera?

again thanks for the quick helpful replies!

Will

the mamiya 90mm or 127mm are both good... you may already know this, but lens lengths are different on medium format due to larger film plane, ie 80-90mm is a 'normal' lens just as 50mm would be in 35mm film.
eye level with rz67 could get heavy. waist level works fine most of the time once you get use to it, i like eye level for more precise compositions

The RZ is a good choice but so is the RB.

I recently purchased a Bronica RF 645 (used). It is a range finder with interchangeable lens with built in meter. If you can live without a SLR, it is light and easy to carry around.
Good luck.

Mamiya 645 is an awesome system. I like the older models. I highly reccomend them. They are affordable and have wonderful optics. The 45mm lens is superb!

Thanks for the pointer on the 645's

I think I would use the camera mainly on a tripod, and occasionally hand-held.. so an eyelevel finder I could cope with... but a waistlevel finder would be useful for when I have the camera low down....

Can you use the RZ67 with an eyelevel, and a waist level easily (not too many screws to undo?)
and also is this a good price: RZ67 Pro + 127 F3.5 + 120 back + Waist Level Finder for £500 in Mint Condition?? (about $775)

127mm seems not too bad.. about 64mm in 35mm terms.. (do you halve focal length?)

Sorry to keep on!

Will

wrogers said:

127mm seems not too bad.. about 64mm in 35mm terms.. (do you halve focal length?)

Sorry to keep on!

Will

Click to expand...

I'm sure someone has a table somewhere, but if you go to the Mamiya website and look at lenses for their cameras, most of the lens descriptions indicate a 35mm equivalent. (e.g. http://is.gd/8OeFb, the 150mm=106mm in 35mm format.)

After using the pan tilt heads for years, I started using ball heads. The low price ones are not so good, such as Bogen with the hex quick release plates.

I finally purchased used an Arca Swiss B1 (?) and a Mini Studioball, with quick release plates and love them. From what I read, the China knock offs are not so good so went with used and very pleased.

YMMV

If you go for 6X7; go with the Rb. Prefered 'C' lenses: 50mm, 90mm,
150mm. 180mm and 250mm. You can go 'up' to RZ later. Same lenses.

I've used a bunch of MF systems from Mamiya and Hassy. I'm all 35mm now, but if I had to go back, I would definitely stay German (meaning square format Hassy or Rolleiflex, which you don't want, but the lens personalities are distinctly different from Mamiya) or I'd kill two birds with one stone and get a modified Polaroid 110b with Graflok back and a 6x7 insert. That way I could also shoot 4x5 and giant 'roids. The drawback is, you'll probably be stuck with a Rodenstock 127mm lens, but it is smokin'. I prefer slightly wider for 6x7, but that's personal choice. Some of the modding folks could put a 90mm on there for you if you're the same way.

But I'd probably also pick up a Rollei 2.8 or Hassy as well. If you can learn to love the square, you get the best options.

thanks for the extra help...

as for the ball head... I will get one if my pan and tilt struggles with the weight (I will upgrade soon anyway)

as for starting with an RB67... in the UK they seem to cost more than an RZ67 for some reason (unless using ebay)

and also as for the Hasselblads and Rollei's... I don't get along with square format, so a slight rectangle is my preference.. also a Hasselblad is expensive! (also Swedish, not German!)

I think I will have a look at an RZ67 and others when I get a chance to visit my nearest dealer that has them...

Thanks
Will

wrogers said:

also a Hasselblad is expensive! (also Swedish, not German!)

Click to expand...

They can be had for under $800/kit. The lenses are German, which is the important part.

cbphoto said:

They can be had for under $800/kit. The lenses are German, which is the important part.

Click to expand...

Ptuii! The optics are good, but it is the system that sets Hasselblad apart from the crowd.

Steve

This may be a little out in left field, but what about a Century Graphic? Roll film backs are available from 645 to 6X9, the bellows can handle lenses from 47mm to about 160mm. While I mostly shoot mine handheld, you also have the benefit of limited movements (drop, rise, shift, tilt, swing), and groundglass focusing. I have the rangefinder calibrated for my 105/3.5 Color Heliar, and use the ground glass for focusing with my other lenses. With a 6X7 rollfilm back (mamiya rb backs fit), I use the camera as a hand held 6X7 rangefinder. The more I use mine, the more I realize what a flexible little bugger it is.

wrogers said:

127mm seems not too bad.. about 64mm in 35mm terms.. (do you halve focal length?)

Click to expand...

That's about right. For 6x7 format, just halve the focal length to get an approximate 35mm equivalent.


Steve.

If getting the RZ, start with the 110/2.8. That lens alone (not to mention the 50/4.5 ULD) is reason enough to buy an RZ over an RB.

Yes you can meter with your DSLR, just be aware that the best approach to exposure for one medium is not necessarily the same as in others - you expose negative and slide differently, and digital too. Digital is a decent preview for a slide exposure though, and I find that spot-metering (with a DSLR - it will give the same readings as a separate meter) is a good way to evaluate a scene's range and choose an exposure to suit your chosen film.

Edit: there is a metering prism for RZ but if using an external meter like a DSLR, don't forget your bellows compensation.

Sirius Glass said:

Ptuii! The optics are good, but it is the system that sets Hasselblad apart from the crowd.

Steve

Click to expand...

It's both, but German optics are quite different from Japanese. In MF, that makes Hassy the only real practical choice (Rollei SLRs and Contax MF cameras are more difficult to buy and use, I think) for those who don't want the Mamiya look, systems aside. But I do agree that the Hassy system is a wonderful and elegant thing.

cbphoto said:

It's both, but German optics are quite different from Japanese. In MF, that makes Hassy the only real practical choice (Rollei SLRs and Contax MF cameras are more difficult to buy and use, I think) for those who don't want the Mamiya look, systems aside. But I do agree that the Hassy system is a wonderful and elegant thing.

Click to expand...

Now we are on the same page.

I went through a similar decision recently, and ended up with a Mamiya M645.

Like most, I started by looking at Hasselblads and Rollies. They were just way too expensive.

From 35mm, I'm used to shooting SLR with a prism, so decided to stick with SLR cameras. That dropped the possibilities to the following:

Bronica ETR family (ETR/ETRS/ETRSi),
Mamiya M645 family (M645/1000s/super/pro),
Bronica SQ family,
Mamiya RB/RZ,
Pentax 645.

After much teeth gnashing, I eventually decided against the larger ones (SQ and RB/RZ), because of the tiny number of frames one gets on a film with these cameras, the extra weight, and the added cost.

I think the 645 format cameras are especially cheap at the moment, as the wedding industry unloads their 645's to pay for 35mm DSLRs. That doesn't hold for the larger formats, which seem to be used more in studios.

Range of lenses for the Pentax knocked that off the list, so I was left with the rather predictable choice of Bronica ETR or Mamiya M645.

So then I ended up buying one of each, as I couldn't decide which I preferred. I bought a Mamiya 645 Super, and a Bronica ETRS. Either are great cameras. The Bronica is built like a battleship, and just oozes strength, but is a tad less advanced than the Mamiya. The fastest 80mm (standard) lens for the Bronica is f/2.8, whereas the Mamiya has an f/1.9. There seems to be a larger range of Mamiya lenses and other bits available, as well.

But the Mamiya feels a little cheesy in use. The body is plastic. Sure, the innards are metal, but it's just not built to last like the Bronica. Also, the focal plane shutter has a flash sync of 1/60, which is awfully slow. The Bronica leaf shutters flash sync at any speed.

So then I found an original Mamiya M645 with an 80mm f/1.9 lens. My plan was to buy the camera for the lens, and offload the body cheaply. But then I played with the body. The original M645, and the 1000s, is an all-metal body, built to last like the Bronica (actually a little better quality than the Bronica, I think). It takes all the Mamiya 645 lenses, and there are a range of prisms available (though one has to be careful when buying, as a lot of them suffer from degraded silvering). Disadvantages of the M645 are a 1/500 maximum shutter speed, the same focal plane shutter as the super, so the same flash sync issues, and no interchangeable backs.

None of these are a problem for me, as my shooting method is slow and deliberate, I rarely use flash, and I tend towards slower films. Should I want to shoot a brightly lit scene wide open, I'll just stick an ND filter on the lens.

Further, I figured the disadvantages of the M645 (mostly lack of interchangeable backs) mean that it's not beloved of wedding photographers, who flogg their gear to death. Despite this, they're still cheap, as people perceive them to be of less value than a super/pro, simply because they're older.

Sure enough, after cleaning up the M645 and buying a nice prism for it, I ended up selling the others.

wrogers said:

Can you use the RZ67 with an eyelevel, and a waist level easily (not too many screws to undo?)

Click to expand...

No screws to undo. Changing out finders is fast and easy. Squeeze the clips and lift off the finder. Heres the instruction manual straight from Mamiya: http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/6x7/RZ67_Pro_v4.pdf

thanks for the extra replies. (3 pages already!!!)

fschifano: thanks for the info on the eyelevel finder.... sounds like the RZ67 is still my favourite.
I now need to wait until saturday, when I work half days, so that I can drive to my next county, to visit a decent camera shop (my local jessops only stocks compacts, and budget DSLR's!!!!)

Will

Suzyj dismissed the Pentax 645 for the range of lenses(?)... Really don't know what she meant by that, the range is rather extensive (perhaps the most extensive in all of MF) because all the 67 Pentax lenses also work at full aperture metering with the Pentax 67>645 adapter.

Any number of Pentax 645/67 lenses are superb yet very inexpensive compared to other MF brands--doubtless from there being so many in circulation.