Moving Back To The Darkside.

wiltw · Nov 14, 2019

I love digital, so many advantages over film...grainless 40X enlargements, as one example; shooting ISO 6400 (or higher) for another example.
I grew up with film, shot that since I was about 11 years old, now going on 58 years since I started that, only started digital about 14 years ago. As much as I love digital, I dearly miss my favorite emulsions and especially the hours of fulfillment spent enlarging and processing color Cibachrome!

Different brushes and different paints for the same artist.

jtk · Nov 15, 2019

Key : AMOLED... Better than prism, ground glass, or..for most purposes...bright line optical. Prisms are history.

Cholentpot · Nov 16, 2019

jtk said:
Key : AMOLED... Better than prism, ground glass, or..for most purposes...bright line optical. Prisms are history.

I don't like looking at a screen when I'm taking photos. A screen of any kind.

MattKing · Nov 16, 2019

I've grown to appreciate the EVF in my digital mirror-less camera - an OMD - but it both adds capabilities, and detracts with other qualities.
I'm glad there are choices available, and I wouldn't trade the viewfinders in my film OM cameras for one.

Cholentpot · Nov 16, 2019

MattKing said:
I've grown to appreciate the EVF in my digital mirror-less camera - an OMD - but it both adds capabilities, and detracts with other qualities.
I'm glad there are choices available, and I wouldn't trade the viewfinders in my film OM cameras for one.

If I'm given one or get a screaming deal I'm not saying no. If I gotta get something to make a living with I'm sticking with the mirror.

MattKing · Nov 16, 2019

The upside of the EVF is that it permits full visibility when viewing at the shooting aperture. When you set the aperture to your smaller shooting aperture - say f/16 - the camera turns up the gain, and you can evaluate depth of field at your shooting aperture with a nice, bright viewfinder.
Which of course makes working with adapted lenses much more fun.

wiltw · Nov 16, 2019

Cholentpot said:
I don't like looking at a screen when I'm taking photos. A screen of any kind.

Yep, I am with you. Any electronic screen refreshed at 120 frames per second update is still delayed to the eye/brain from what the lens detected! A jet moves over 7 feet in 1/120 sec. Trying to shoot a close up photo of a pilot inside the cockpit a Blue Angels jet flying overhead is pretty hard under the circumstances of a positional offset of 7 feet.

Cholentpot · Nov 16, 2019

wiltw said:
Yep, I am with you. Any electronic screen refreshed at 120 frames per second update is still delayed to the eye/brain from what the lens detected! A jet moves over 7 feet in 1/120 sec. Trying to shoot a close up photo of a pilot inside the cockpit a Blue Angels jet flying overhead is pretty hard under the circumstances of a positional offset of 7 feet.

Just hold down the shutter...

wiltw · Nov 17, 2019

Cholentpot said:
Just hold down the shutter...

and even if your camera could shoot still frames at 10 frames per second the jet will have moved over ten times as far as a single refresh of the viewfinder. .75 feet between frames

Cholentpot · Nov 17, 2019

wiltw said:
and even if your camera could shoot still frames at 10 frames per second the jet will have moved over ten times as far as a single refresh of the viewfinder. .75 feet between frames

I was being sarcastic.

I shot a few airshows win a F3 and motor drive. Did a good enough job.

M. Axel Wikstrom · Nov 17, 2019

wiltw said:
Yep, I am with you. Any electronic screen refreshed at 120 frames per second update is still delayed to the eye/brain from what the lens detected! A jet moves over 7 feet in 1/120 sec. Trying to shoot a close up photo of a pilot inside the cockpit a Blue Angels jet flying overhead is pretty hard under the circumstances of a positional offset of 7 feet.

Lead, like the old anti-aircraft gunners did.

wiltw · Nov 18, 2019

M. Axel Wikstrom said:
Lead, like the old anti-aircraft gunners did.

A reasonable technique for planes back then. But a modern jet can be suddenly put into overdrive and go from the speed of sound to well beyond the speed of sound, and unless you adjust your lead to suit you will miss the shot.

wiltw · Nov 18, 2019

Cholentpot said:
I was being sarcastic.

I shot a few airshows win a F3 and motor drive. Did a good enough job.

OK, your tongue in cheek...nevertheless a lot of readers would not have realized the futility of the solution (offered in jest).

M. Axel Wikstrom · Nov 19, 2019

wiltw said:
A reasonable technique for planes back then. But a modern jet can be suddenly put into overdrive and go from the speed of sound to well beyond the speed of sound, and unless you adjust your lead to suit you will miss the shot.

LOL, It doesn't happen as "instantly" as you describe. I have plenty of hours in jet fighters.

And think about it; if you're following a fast moving object using an electronic sensor with its inherent delay, it's "leading" anyway - you'll still get the shot.

Cholentpot · Nov 19, 2019

M. Axel Wikstrom said:
LOL, It doesn't happen as "instantly" as you describe. I have plenty of hours in jet fighters.

And think about it; if you're following a fast moving object using an electronic sensor with its inherent delay, it's "leading" anyway - you'll still get the shot.

Warp drive!

wiltw · Nov 20, 2019

M. Axel Wikstrom said:
LOL, It doesn't happen as "instantly" as you describe. I have plenty of hours in jet fighters.

And think about it; if you're following a fast moving object using an electronic sensor with its inherent delay, it's "leading" anyway - you'll still get the shot.

Yeah, acceleration rate makes it not instantaneous to go from 550 mph to 1000mph, but if my lead is 7' ahead, when the jet has accelerated to 590mph, the 7' lead is already off by 1'.
Assuming a non-accelerating jet...

Instant 0: Plane at 0', aim at 0'
Instant 1: Plane at 7', aim at 0' due to EVF lag at 120fps (time to scan sensor one time, with processing into JPG image, then display on EVF)
Instant 2: Plane at 14', aim at 7' due to EVF lag at 120fps (time to scan sensor a second time, with processing into JPG image, then display new frame on EVF)
Instant 3: Plane at 21', aim at 14' due to EVF lag at 120fps (time to scan sensor a second time, with processing into JPG image, then display new frame on EVF)

the issue is not simply what the sensor sees, it is the added time to (after scanning the sensor) convert the sensor RAW data to a JPG image, then present it on the EVF.

Moving Back To The Darkside.

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