most portable large format camera.

jordanstarr · May 18, 2007

i'm considering getting into large format photography. i got a couple medium formats and only see myself going bigger. i'm considering a 4x5 camera as i have a 4x5 enlarger with lens and carrier to boot. i shoot in some pretty sketchy areas of the city where i don't have a lot of time to shoot before security or cops catch me or junkies start eyeing my gear (sorry for the seemingly prejudice remark, but i live in east vancouver and work at a homeless shelter. i know lots of guys who wouldn't hesitate to jump me for my gear if they can get 20$ for it).

to make a long story short, any recommendations for a small 4x5 camera? it doesn't matter so much if it is light -i'm still young and i'm used to carrying around lots of gear. i just need something that is quick and fairly small -discrete.

Nick Zentena · May 18, 2007

What are you photographing?

If you can handle the limits of a press camera it's an obvious answer. The B&J is metal under the skin so can stand a knock or give a whack -)

jordanstarr · May 18, 2007

i shoot lots of urban street photos, not landscapes. i like to shoot interesting things in areas of the city that is being torn down and "modernized". yes, i was looking at the pretty cameras, like the graflex with a 125mm lens. i haven't really done my research though. it was just a question to point me in the right direction. i wasn't sure if there was a really good portable SLR-style one that was perfect for what i'm looking for. i doubt it though. it would be too good to be true.

Nick Zentena · May 18, 2007

LF SLR tend to be big.

http://graflex.org/articles/series-d/

That's a SLR.

Peter De Smidt · May 18, 2007

Toho

How about a Toho FC45-x? See: http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

KenM · May 18, 2007

Linhof Technika's fold up into a fairly small package, but they do tend to be on the heavy side.

removed account4 · May 18, 2007

hi jordanstarr

i do kind of what you like to do too ...
a speed graphic is great for doing urban photography.
it can go really wide ( i regularly use a 65mm lens on mine ) and
as long as a 15" telephoto as well.
it is great for those documentary shots and portraits where you don't
care if lines converge/diverge ... and it is really easy to take photographs
and get the heck out of there - handheld or on a tripod ...

i like to hang around while buildings were being demolished pretty often
(handheld) and photograph the stuff of yesterday that won't be around tomorrow ...

you might be in luck though,
this is a prototype 4x5 slr :

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

David A. Goldfarb · May 18, 2007

In the city under those conditions, you want something that sets up quickly and can be put away quickly. The main movements you need are rise for tall buildings and shift is nice when you might want to look down a street or alleyway, but you don't want the street to have to be in the center of the frame. Infinity stops are handy. It also helps to get comfortable using a folding hood rather than a darkcloth, so you can keep your eyes open and see what's happening around you.

Press cameras with those movements are ideal. I usually use a Linhof Tech V for shooting around the city, but if that's out of your price/comfort range, there are many less expensive options.

k_jupiter · May 18, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
In the city under those conditions, you want something that sets up quickly and can be put away quickly. The main movements you need are rise for tall buildings and shift is nice when you might want to look down a street or alleyway, but you don't want the street to have to be in the center of the frame. Infinity stops are handy. It also helps to get comfortable using a folding hood rather than a darkcloth, so you can keep your eyes open and see what's happening around you.

Press cameras with those movements are ideal. I usually use a Linhof Tech V for shooting around the city, but if that's out of your price/comfort range, there are many less expensive options.

You need a beat to hell 4x5 Crown Graphic with a Graphmatic back, lens stops for each of your lens set for infinity. Get your infinity set up with your range finder, then use f11 or so or smaller to cover most things in focus.

Street shooting at it's best.

tim in san jose

removed account4 · May 18, 2007

Nick Zentena said:
LF SLR tend to be big.

http://graflex.org/articles/series-d/

That's a SLR.

i have one of those, but don't really use it for "urban documentation" --
not because mine is big or heavy (its not THAT bad) but because
it is shot waist-high when not on a tripod (and me on a tall ladder),
so the perspective tends to be "from the belly" instead of higher up.
you can hold the camera upside down,
it isn't as well balanced holding it over your head as it is
holding it infront of you, but you can get those slow shutter speeds easier .

in a lot of ways, a slr is a lot more fun to use than any of the other cameras i have.
(the main camera i use these days.)
it makes it easy to be spontaneous and shoot large format
(2 things that don't usually get said in the same sentence) ...

good luck!
john

ragc · May 18, 2007

I agree in this case a press camera is best. Otherwise I would have recommended an old wood camera like my converted half-plate, which is cheap, but the fast setup feature is not a characteristic of a folding wood camera.

rkmiec · May 18, 2007

if you dont need movements check out fotoman cameras at fotoman camera.com for 800 bucks you get a really nice point and shoot.you would have to supply a lens.it sounds as if you need speed and you cant get much faster than point and shoot.also if money isnt an issue a cambo wide or similar would do the trick.these are just a few non press camera options.goodluck.

jordanstarr · May 18, 2007

You need a beat to hell 4x5 Crown Graphic with a Graphmatic back, lens stops for each of your lens set for infinity. Get your infinity set up with your range finder, then use f11 or so or smaller to cover most things in focus.

i like that idea. the crappier looking the better in my opinion. i don't need something new looking to grab attention. i'd like a good lens on it though. any suggestions for that? i was thinking of a fujinon 125mm f5.6. i've had a similar enlarger lens that made wicked prints. something around a 35-50mm (in 35mm format) would be ideal, so between 125 and 150 i suppose for lf.

k_jupiter · May 18, 2007

jordanstarr said:
i like that idea. the crappier looking the better in my opinion. i don't need something new looking to grab attention. i'd like a good lens on it though. any suggestions for that? i was thinking of a fujinon 125mm f5.6. i've had a similar enlarger lens that made wicked prints. something around a 35-50mm (in 35mm format) would be ideal, so between 125 and 150 i suppose for lf.

If you know you are not gonna use movements... A classic 127/4.5 Ektar in press shutter. Soft a bit on the edges, but sharp as a tack in the middle. It was a press corps staple in the 40's and 50's.

Other fun but good lens? 135/3.5 Zeiss Tessar in Compur Shutter. I have one on a 9x12 platten camera converted to 3.25x4.25 film... and it is nice, no matter what dagor77 says.

Something newer? The fuji 150/6.3 150/5.6. Both nice lens. Those are about a 45mm in 35mm format. Light, good quality, seiko shutter.

tim in san jose

MurrayMinchin · May 18, 2007

How things change with time

When going to art school in Vancouver in the early 80's I used to wander around the back alleys downtown, at night, with a Pentax 6x7 outfit...I was never hassled once and I can't remember seeing a single needle.

I'd go with a manky looking hand held 4x5 and a small beat up canvas bag; one with a shoulder strap that's big enough to hold a bunch of film holders. I'd also try to keep the light metering to a minimum as they just ooze expensive piece of gear.

Good luck and stay safe!

Murray

Eyepix · May 18, 2007

Littman

Forgive me if someone has already suggested this. I did not read all the threads.

jordanstarr,

The gear I use is a Toyo AII camera... very quick setup, lightweight, metal, and takes small lensboards. If I could get a range finder for it I could hand hold it (if shooting during the day) but I can't seem to find one. I don't know if they make one. Oh well. Serves me well, I am very happy with it.

I live in D.C. and do alot of night shooting. I need equipment that can move quickly, if need be. I was considering getting a pittbull to accompany me but I haven't been mugged yet. So I will probably abstain from such measures, for now.

Sounds like what you need is a Littman 45 Single

http://www.littman45single.com/10gallery/gallery_home.html

and a Graflex 4x5 Grafmatic film holder

http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-4x5-Gra...9QQihZ004QQcategoryZ15247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This will hold up to 6 4x5 sheets of film. I would love to have one of these cameras. It is a true SLR 4x5 camera. It's usually calibrated to take one lens. I believe that is it's only drawback. Yeah, it doesn't have tilts, shifts, and swings but you dont need that, especially for what you are trying to do. You just want a larger negative so you can get more detail and make larger prints...right?! Go for it dude, thats what you want. Not to mention, Speed Graphics are way too heavy.

Good luck!

Eyepix · May 18, 2007

Yeah, Fotomans are good, too. But they take a lens cones and the lens is at a fixed position. So you can only shoot at one certain distances. I think thats right. The Littman 45 has a bellows on it that can be adjusted. The camera is a polaroid land camera design that takes 4x5 film. It also has a range finder so you can focus handheld. The only drawback to something like this (handheld 4x5) is that you can't expose the film for shadow detail. You need a tripod for that. Or you need some really fast film.

Eyepix · May 19, 2007

This might work:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-Speed-G...7QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This too, this is a Littman hybrid:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=140119413639&rd=1&rd=1

bdial · May 19, 2007

The Hobo might be a possiblity if you want something that's very simple - no movements at all...

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/product.php?productid=680&cat=237&page=1

Frank R · May 19, 2007

One more vote for a beat up Crown Graphic or the heavier Speed Graphic.

You can always use it as a weapon if you need to (I pity the guy you will beat to death with a Speed Graphic. Come to think of it, it wouldn't take that long! All you would have to do then is wipe off the camera and continue on your way.)

TheFlyingCamera · May 19, 2007

The Fotoman lens cones have helical focusing mounts, so you tell them which lens you have when you order the camera, and they send you an appropriate cone with the proper distance scale on the helical focus mount, and you put the lens on.

If you're at all handy with DIY type projects, you can make a Littmann type camera for very little money - get yourself one of a number of Polaroid cameras, remove the Polaroid back, and graft on a 4x5 back. There's tons of documentation out there on the web on how to do it.

eclarke · May 19, 2007

I agree with the Fotoman, especially if you are going to have one lens. You don't sound like you will do much architectural photography so rise and fall aren't critical. The Nikon 135 is a nice lens and you may find you need a little wide once in a while. I went into Yoho last year and left my 135 home in favor of my 150..I regretted it every day..EC

athanasius80 · May 20, 2007

Sample:
Handheld with available light January 2007. 4x5 B&J press with a 127mm Kodak Ektar. Bad contact print and scandalously dusty scanner. Enjoy!

DBP · May 20, 2007

If you are really worried about your safety and the need to carry something cheap, add a nice old bulb flash to a Speed/Crown Graphic and carry a few old press bulbs. BTW, the listed Speed Graphic above is way overpriced.

And of course, folded, a press camera just looks like a little leather box to most people.

mitica100 · May 20, 2007

An older Linhof Technika, such as model III might not be a bad idea. They're small, have triple extension bellows, all metal (a bit on the heavy side) and very sturdy. The only major drawback being the lack of lensboards on the market, these are not compatible with the later models (IV and V). They sell for cheaper than the IV and V models.

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