Most important advice you never followed

Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,708
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
The whole 'using one film and one developer' thing... I view it like this:

There is a very strong relationship between the 'Paper/Developer' combination, and the 'Negative/Exposure/Development' combination. It takes time to understand that relationship, and how to tune your negatives with exposure and development, taking everything like lens contrast, light, subject matter, etc into account to make the very most of the paper's qualities.

You can get good results by 'overexposing a stop and pull development 20%' all day long, but if you are after the very best your materials have to offer, then you have to look beyond information on the internet and the box the film came in. Reason: There is no way in hell everybody else is going to be able to tell what paper you're printing on, what developer you're using, at what dilution, what type of enlarger you have, what contrast filters you have, your camera's shutter, your camera's lens (and its contrast!), and on and on and on. All those things are individual to each user, and have to be taken into account.

The only thing that can tell you the truth of what your paper needs is the print and your eyes looking at it, and the only person that can do that for you is: YOU!

So, am I nuts or what? Maybe a little bit. Luckily, the magic comes from YOU, and not the camera, the film, the developer, or paper. It is how you fit all these things together that really makes it gel. If you don't believe me, then buy a hundred rolls of fresh FP4+ or Tri-X, a few bags of D76, shoot one roll at a time, and contact print, proof, and print. If you don't have enough shadow detail for a particular kind of light - expose more. If your highlights block up - develop less. Learn each lighting scenario, and how to adjust for it, print your negs, on the same paper, using the same developer, and eventually you will see that the only magic there is is hard work.

So, about the 'nuts' part. To me it's just exactly twice as difficult to learn all this with two films. If you add one more developer, it's four times as difficult. If you have two different papers, it's eight times as difficult, or at least eight times as much information needed to get to the goodies that hide within the potential of all your materials.

That is how I see it, and why I have stopped using anything but Tri-X these days, processed in replenished Xtol, printed on Ilford MGIV (unless it's a portrait in which case I use MGWT) processed in replenished LPD. Not because I think they're better, but it's what I know best. My negs prints with an ease I could not have imagined, meaning I waste a whole lot less in the darkroom (paper is so f-ing expensive these days). This becomes utterly clear when I try to print old negatives, and it takes me 4-5 sheets to get to a good print, while I can get one that I'm really satisfied with in 2-3 sheets with newer negatives. That to me speaks volumes.

I hope that this little anecdote is of use to someone, as I realize that my way of doing things is just one person. None of it is my idea, but learned from photographers who have taught photography for a very long time, and in term learned from past masters. Shaking what I call the 'photographers disease' has been an eye-opening experience for me.

- Thomas
 

Aron

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
256
Location
Hungary
Format
Multi Format

+1
 

Roger Cole

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
6,069
Location
Atlanta GA
Format
Multi Format
Out of curiousity, what is it that TMZ gives you in 35 mm that you don't get from the Delta?

Mainly, the ability to go to 6400 with acceptable results at need, and maybe finer grain. To be fair, I've tried TMZ at 6400 but not tried doing that with Delta 3200 yet.

Truth is, I was using TMZ in 35mm before I got a medium format camera. Then I couldn't get TMZ for it so I got Delta 3200. So I sort of got to know that film in that size and the other film in the other size, though I don't shoot nearly as much of either as I do, say, Tri-X.

My impression is that TMZ is finer grained but the difference in magnification for the different negatives makes that not an instant easy comparison. Comparing is easy enough - say a 5x7 from 35mm with a 11.25x11.25 from 6x6. Put that on my to-do list. I would like to just standardize on Delta 3200 since I can get it in both sizes AND I'm more comfortable with it being available longer.

But I'm not using these for general photography and I wonder just how much I need to know about them. I develop by the times the manufacturers give for one stop more - that is, shoot at 3200, develop for 6400 - and I get easily printed negatives, a bit contrasty as one would expect but eminently printable. And in that kind of light, beggars can't be choosers. Short of going to digital it's not going to get any better than one of these films or the other, and I don't think the differences between them are going to make or break an image.
 

Moopheus

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
1,219
Location
Cambridge MA
Format
Medium Format
T
That is how I see it, and why I have stopped using anything but Tri-X these days, processed in replenished Xtol, printed on Ilford MGIV (unless it's a portrait in which case I use MGWT) processed in replenished LPD.

The key phrase here is "stopped used anything but". You didn't just start out with this particular combination, and use nothing but that all along, did you? You experimented with other things along the way. It may be that your workflow drove you in the direction of one film-one developer, but what makes the advice useless is the notion that anyone should start at the end of the process.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
15,708
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format

Useless? Maybe to you. I wish somebody had taught me that lesson from day one.
 

removed-user-1

"First thing you need to do is get a better lens."

Spoken by a fellow photographer on the staff of my school paper in 1996, over the fact that my entire photo arsenal consisted of a Nikon FG, a Nikon Series E 50mm f/1.8 and a Vivitar 135mm f/2.8. That very week, I had a front-page, above-the-fold photo made with the Vivitar lens, which cost me all of $10. I learned right there that the quality of the photo has more to do with the photographer than anything else.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
i think using one developer/paper/film camera &c is that you get used to the results
you know what to expect in a variety of situations ...
when i took my first photography class we used tri x ( rated at 300 )
sprint film developer, sprint paper developer and kodak rc polymax paper
the teacher doled it out for a few years. i can't imagine the trouble he would have had
if everyone was using something different.

simple can be good ...
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,199
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
...when i took my first photography class we used tri x ( rated at 300 )
sprint film developer, sprint paper developer and kodak rc polymax paper
the teacher doled it out for a few years...

We had the standard Tri-X/Dektol/D-76 and assorted Kodak Chemicals at the university. We started out with Kodak VC RC paper -- and the prints the Professor could make showed us it was possible. After my first couple of classes I drifted towards Pan-X in my Rolleiflex, developed in Microdol-X (1:3) and enlarged 15"x15". I guess someone must have mentioned Microdol-X to me. By the time Pan-X was no more, I had already moved on to 4x5, first with Royal Pan . For some reason that is what they carried at the camera store, some Super-XX in there, too. As a student I even took apart a GAF film pack and loaded those thin sheets in to the standard 4x5 holders. I used whatever film I could get a hold of! I still developed in Microdol-X (1:3) for some reason -- habit, I suppose. With the arrival of TMax 100 and a more regular paycheck (or at least seasonally regular), I could concentrate on one film and developer...TMax 100 in HC-110 (1:60 from the syrup)...tray developed. Now I am all over the place again -- working with different processes, films of very different characteristics, etc. But I did just buy two boxes of FP4+ in 8x10, my "standard"! And I have two more boxes of the same in 5x7. I am feeling film-rich.

My advise -- keep notes so that you can repeat the successes!

The best piece of advise I got but never followed up on was my University prof's insistence that I take work down to show to AA. Too shy to do so. This would be the very early 1980's. So I never met him. As a volunteer workshop assistant for the Friends of Photography, I got to see his house and darkroom a few times and had lunch there with his widow and other notables in the photo scene. But alas, never AA. But the above workshops introduced me to many great photographers.

Vaughn
 
OP
OP

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
9,383
Format
4x5 Format
Wow so much hard to follow advice...

To echo Thomas...

The whole 'using one film and one developer' thing... I view it like this:

After a lifetime search you find the right one. Then you realize how good it is to stick to one thing - and so you offer that advice. Not realizing the search was worth the trouble.
 

Roger Cole

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
6,069
Location
Atlanta GA
Format
Multi Format
For some, the search is also part of the fun. I enjoy trying new things. I do photography because I enjoy it. Why would I stop doing something that's one of the things I like about photography?

Might make better images - but I honestly kind of doubt it, unless ALL one does is shoot a bunch of films and try a bunch of developers. It's certainly possible to get to the point you're using nothing but stuff you really don't know what to expect from in even general terms, but that's an extreme that most of us don't engage in or advocate.

I think this was much more important in the days of mostly graded papers when VC papers sucked. It was more important to choose a paper/developer combination, then choose a film/developer combination and work out your development times to match the negatives to the paper. That will still produce quicker, easier prints, at least starting straight prints, but the printing has much more leeway now.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Messages
1,833
Location
Plymouth. UK
Format
Multi Format
Have you thought about getting a Paterson contact printing frame for 35mm, which will allow you to print 6 strips of 6 on a sheet of 10 X 8?
I never liked those 8"x 10" Paterson contact-printing frames. Everything looks too crammed up onto a single sheet of paper.

The Paterson Pro-Proofer/Copy Board is a much better buy. http://www.patersonphotographic.com/patersondarkroom-details1.htm

I much prefer to make contact sheets with 12"x 9.5" papers for 35mm and 120 rollfilms using a sheet of glass from a photo-frame. The negatives are placed in transparent negative storage sleeves first.

For 35mm-36 exposure films, I cut them into six separate strips of 5 negatives and then a final strip of six negatives.

Using 12" x 9.5" papers for contact-sheets makes choosing which negatives I want to enlarge much easier IMHO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Roger Cole

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
6,069
Location
Atlanta GA
Format
Multi Format

12"x9.5" paper? The only way I'm getting that here would be to cut down 11x14. I've noticed you seem to have choices of paper sizes over there that we don't. (12x16"? I didn't realize it until now but I just checked and I can at least get Foma and Adox in 12x16. Since I use Adox MCC 110 that's good to know - but way too big for a contact sheet. Just a nice size slightly larger than 11x14 but cheaper and easier to handle than 16x20.)
 
OP
OP

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
9,383
Format
4x5 Format
Revisiting "one camera" idea. So the classic advice goes "use one camera and one lens, one film etc. and get to know it."

Just recently took a break from 4x5 TMY-2 and did some work with 6x9 Panatomic-X in a Tessar Ikonta, found there were pinholes in the bellows. One shot, amazing, in bright sun the pinhole hit the film and drew a weird pattern exactly where the surge of local "old faithful" geyser was spouting. I had to print it for amusement even though the shot was "ruined" in the classic sense. I also used a spindly legs tripod and self-timer wasn't working and didn't have a cable release. So many, many shots were blurred. Usually I would discard such shots as failures and move on. But some were interesting compositions so I printed them anyway.

I don't want to say I lowered my standards. But I had different outcomes than I would have had if I had stuck to my "one camera".
 

LJSLATER

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
278
Location
Utah Valley
Format
35mm
I hold my 35mm cameras "wrong". I normally grab the lens from the side instead of "cradling" it *gag*.

When I shoot vertically, I rotate the camera clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.

Finally, I use my left eye. And I close my right eye, I never shoot with both eyes open.

I've been told countless times I don't know how to hold the camera and that I'm compromising the image quality of my photos because of it. Tough shit, I'll hold my camera any way I please, thank you very much.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…