Most fool-proof processing equipment

[skorpiius]

Let's say I not only wanted to process 35mm/120 C-41/bw/E-6 for myself, but also for paying customers.
What is the most foolproof processing equipment available in this situation where a screwup would be disastrous, which would be suitable for use in a home?

Thanks

 

[MattKing]

Phototherm Sidekick comes to mind: http://www.phototherm.com/sk8rh.html

 

[skorpiius]

Phototherm Sidekick comes to mind: http://www.phototherm.com/sk8rh.html

I actually didn't expect there was something that 'high tech' out there.
Any thoughts for something less perfect that might be.. 1/5th that price?

 

[pdeeh]

you might try and pick up a minilab from ebay?

 

[Paul Howell]

You can get a minilab film processor or for around a grand, sometimes less, but they need to set up, plumbed and the like, and most are designed for C41, there were separate units for E6. Kodak made the Versamat, there others as well made film processors that could be set up for any process including X ray, but the older models had to be a light tight room. I don't know if anyone is still making minilabs or for that matter servicing them.

 

[Paul Howell]

To answer my own question Fuji is still producing, selling and marketing minilabs.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Jobo processor is probably the best choice these days I got a CPP3 and use it in manual mode , the new one from Cat Labs is one I could recommend. You are talking about processing for others which is a very demanding commitment. It is almost impossible to screw up . Personally I would steer clear of E6 for clients, but you will be the judge on that one.


Stay away from the Auto Jobo units, no matter what anyone says, the lift arm goes after a set number of lifts and replacing it is next to impossible, I see them all the time for sale
and I cringe thinking about the poor soul who gets one. I bought 1 new back Alt 2300 in the day and 4 used Alt 2300 which all lasted very short times, all had lift arm failures. I figure the first unit had its full 36 thousand lifts then failure, all the used units had various lift counts which caused eventual failure after a set amount of lifts.

No more Auto, for me,

Roller transport units are on the market, and would look perfect for home use, but they are notorious for scratching film.
Bigger dip and dunk are too large for your home.

Basket systems work well, I used both BW , Colour Basket in College with good results.
Stainless steel reels, and tanks are in abundance.
So this would be my second choice for your situation.

For my personal lab I am considering a larger dip and dunk unit.

 

[Vaughn]

A foolproof design just encourages mother nature to make better fools...

 

[skorpiius]

For my personal lab I am considering a larger dip and dunk unit.

What would be an example of these?

 

[EdSawyer]

I have a Super Sidekick. It's great, very reliable. The only issues I had with it were if I didn't use the clips (think pieces of plastic venitian blinds) to secure the 120 film into the roll, it would sometimes unwind inside the machine. But since starting to use those, it's been great, no problems. You can find them on Ebay for 1/5 or less the original price.

 

[Bob Carnie]

What would be an example of these?

Refrema is the top of the line. But I am looking into solutions for this exact situation now, One would need a good technician handy that is confident with the older units, I will look for my equipment with the technician as it ultimately depends upon their being able to fix the machine. In Toronto there are actually a lot of very good technical Lab people looking for part time cash so I am lucky in that sense.
You could stock pile parts and the right tech can make anything work. Electronics and motors are all available, the clips ,hangers and such will last forever. Sleeving can be custom ordered.
Most of this is 1970 tech and I do not think we have completely lost our ability to be innovative.

 

[Paul Howell]

Thinking about it, most fool proof, home made large tank with constant temperature control unit for water bath, lab quality PCP pipe, 6 inches across, tall enough for 6 reels, capped on the bottom, stopcock to drain, set of Paterson reels, have stainless steel T rods made to hold 6 reels. One tank for each chemistry. Fill tanks with chemistry, add water bring chemistry up to temp. Turn out the lights, load film on reels, add loaded reels to T rods once rod is filled use Gray lab timer to start the process. Dip and dunk step by step, use standard film washer. If planning on processing 4X5 then have square stainless steel tanks make tall enough for 6 reels. Low tech, with practice fool proof.

 

[darkroommike]

Assume you want to just process 35mm and 120, and do C-41, E-6 and B&W. And you want consistent repeatable results since you are processing for others. You need something like a Photo-therm or a Wing Lynch. You now need to stock three types of chemistry and ancillary consumables like slide mounts, file pages, slide boxes, etc. Are you going to print? Then you need two more machines to process B&W and color prints. What about enlargements? Most small town labs break down into three groups. Those that process slides. Those that process and print B&W. And those that do C-41/color prints. I think that the smallest volume higher yield is in E-6 but those customers are super picky and want a pretty fast turn-a-round. Custom black and white is also good money but usually much less automated so a smaller money maker. And C-41 can't make money unless you go for big volume since you're competing with the few remaining one hour labs which a lot of stores seem willing to run at a loss to draw people into their shops.

 

[chuck94022]

Let's say I not only wanted to process 35mm/120 C-41/bw/E-6 for myself, but also for paying customers.
What is the most foolproof processing equipment available in this situation where a screwup would be disastrous, which would be suitable for use in a home?

Thanks

You have to decide if your true goal is "foolproof" or "efficient" (ie, saving time).

If the latter, get the most automated processor you can find. A phototherm is good, a minilab is good, a Jobo ATL is good, a Jobo CPP3 is good.

If you want a foolproof system, the best thing you can do for yourself is get a simple system (Patterson Supertank is good for roll film, tray or dip and dunk is good for sheets) and practice, practice practice until you are no longer a fool.

The latter will result in better negatives, because you'll have tighter control and you'll have more visceral experience.

I tossed my Jobo CPP2 years ago. Best darkroom decision I ever made.

 

[AgX]

To answer my own question Fuji is still producing, selling and marketing minilabs.

You still get brand-new Agfa D-Labs with integrated filmprocessor for C-41.

But minilabs are not versatile.

To be versatile next to drum processors (Jobo, Sidekick) there are hanger processors, also still available brand-new.

 

[blockend]

Professional processing equipment requires maintenance and volume to be consistent and cost effective. Meet those and it's win-win, fail and you have a chemical eating dinosaur. With the exception of black and white processing, it's cheaper and easier to farm processing out to a big lab that does have throughput. For non-professional work, get a Jobo or a regular inversion tank. I do my own C41 in the sink because a degree or two temperature drift isn't apparent in the negative, but I wouldn't rely on that variation for pro work.

If you can't add the extra costs of professional processing onto a clients bill without going broke, you're in the wrong game. Convenience is a different question, if pro labs are non-existent in your area it might be worth setting up a minilab, but do a budget forecast first.

 

[Bob Carnie]

You still get brand-new Agfa D-Labs with integrated filmprocessor for C-41.

But minilabs are not versatile.

To be versatile next to drum processors (Jobo, Sidekick) there are hanger processors, also still available brand-new.

Could you point us to brand new Hanger processor systems?

 

[AgX]

Bob, I already did so in your own lab thread: Tecnolab in Italy

 

[Bob Carnie]

Bob, I already did so in your own lab thread: Tecnolab in Italy

I was advised that Tecnolab is not going to be made again just this weekend... by a reliable source, could you confirm the contrary?

 

[AgX]

I take my wisdom from their cvomprehensive website, that indicates that hanger processors are at least available.
But I admit websites are not always reliable (see that spooky DHW site and their ads here at Apug).

 

[Chan Tran]

To answer my own question Fuji is still producing, selling and marketing minilabs.

New Minilab is very expensive but as you said used ones are cheap. If the OP has sufficient volume then the Minilab processors are the best bet.

 

[Paul Howell]

A film processor is not too bad, just a drain for chemistry as fresh chemistry is being added, the ones I have used are 110V. A Fuji Frontier printer needs 220 3 phase power supply. I think an older analog set up is 110, don't recall of the top of my head.