Most economical way to use D76?

[cooltouch]

My apologies in advance if this topic has been done to death. I searched back several weeks and didn't find anything pertinent.

I'm about to prepare a new batch of D76. Previously I just mixed up a whole gallon of the stuff and used it full strength. Wasn't the most economical way to use it, although I did get good results. But this time, I thought I'd do things differently, and mix up just what I need as I need it.

One fellow I know likes to mix his batches at the proportion of ~28 grams (1 oz) per 500ml, which is the same as a 1:1 dilution. 2 oz per 500ml would be full strength.

It seems from an economy standpoint that 1:1 would be the way to go. I note, however, from the Kodak data sheet for D76 that it states that a 1:1 dilution provides increased sharpness at the expense of more grain.

So, one of the things I'm wondering about, for those of you who have used it both ways, is which do you prefer? Is the sharpness significant enough to offset the increased amount of grain? Or should I stick with full strength?

I suppose I can mix up one batch of each and shoot a couple of test rolls to see for myself. But if I can avoid reinventing the wheel, and instead gain from others' experience, I prefer to do this first. So thanks in advance for any insights you can provide.

 

[applesanity]

The most economical way to use D76 is to buy Legacy Pro developer from Freestylephoto.biz. It's the same exact formulation as D-76, but sells for somewhat cheaper. D76 stock doesn't look as nice as D76 1+1 (it's 1+1, not 1:1), which in my opinion, doesn't look as good as Rodinal - which is really, really cheap and lasts forever.

 

[Ian Grant]

Make it up and buy some replenisher, and just keep on reusing it & replenishing.

That's how D76 was designed to be used when first published back in 1927 as a Cine film developer, and was how all commercial users used it usually in deep tanks until more recently, but it works just as well in a big bottle.

It's not economic at 1+1, and not ideal at 1+3 but is great at 1+2 although no times have been published.

Ian

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

First decide what looks good, and then you can think about how to save money. Straight or 1+1 will look less grainy at the expense of acutance. 1+3 will look sharper at the expense of grain. Depending on how much film you process, replenished stock or 1+3 will likely be the least expensive, but figure out what that will mean in real terms. How expensive is developer? If don't process a lot of film, maybe the most economical way to use it would be to mix it yourself from bulk chemicals in the quantities you actually use, rather than buying the 1 gallon packets.

 

[tony lockerbie]

Hi Ian, have you any times for Plus-X or Tri-X at 1+2?

 

[ruilourosa]

do it yourself!

it´s sooo cheap apart the dilution you use

even cheaper options can to my mind but d-76 is a good allrounder, but if you do parodinal a roll will develop close to 0 € let´s make some calculations:

the lye and the sulfite cost around 1€ a kilo

the paracetamol tablets (500mg) cost around 1€ (30 units)(15grams)

soo to make 250ml of it you will need 1,07€

if you dilute it 1+25 you will do 6,5 liters of the working solution

it will develop 26 35mm rolls in my jobo tanks

double it if you do 1+50


dilution:1+25 cost: around 5 cents
dilution:1+50 cost: half


that´s really cheap for me

cheers

 

[BetterSense]

When I used D76 I used it 1+1. Wonderful results. Now I use other developers for various reasons.

 

[nworth]

D-76 undiluted has pretty good capacity (about 4 rolls per liter or 16-8X10 sheet per gallon). The fresh solution keeps for 6 months in a full bottle and 2 months in a half-full bottle. I would expect that partially used developer would keep at least two months in a full bottle. Replenisher can extend the capacity if you are doing a lot of processing. The undiluted solution works well with most of the films on the market now. The results are usually appear to be finer grained and very slightly less sharp.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I realise that developers are more economical when diluted, but diluting isn't always best.

I have been using D76 generally 1+1 for the last few decades for all films I develop; there are some exceptions.

If I'm doing a portrait of a female who is of the age where showing every pore and wrinkle is not exactly what she would like to see, then I use D76 straight.

If shooting other portrait subjects, I use it at 1+1.

I have not used D76 at 1+3 often, I just don't like it. I agree with Ian that at 1+2 it is a very good dilution.

The 1+2 dilution I use primarily for architectural pictures, for this it shines. Tony, extrapolate between 1+1 & 1+3 times to get a starting reference for 1+2, it's that simple.

Mick.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

The very cheapest way is to mix it from scratch with bulk chems bought in large volumns, like a pound of metal at a time and protect it small sealed bottles.

My sodium sulfite came in a 25 lb pail from the chemistry store.

I can mix volumns as small as 1/2 liter or as large as I want. Decant to small containers filled to the top.
It lasts 6 months perfectly with no change. Never keep a half or partial bottle, not even for a week.

Use at 1:3. It shows grain but is very sharp. 1:1 is a good compromise.

NEVER mix a partial Kodak bag for lots of reasons.

 

[Denis R]

thoughts

$7 for 1 gallon packet of d-76 from local store, price went up 50c since october

mix entire packet to make 1 gallon as stock solution

for tank mix, 10 oz. of d-76 + 10 oz. of water to develop 2 films at one time

the capacity K lists for total capacity works out to 8 oz. for each 36x film yielding 16 rolls developed

16 x 2 = 32
7 / 32 = 22c each roll developed

compare to t-max one-shot
1 + 4
for tank mix, 4 oz. of t-max + 16 oz. of water to develop 2 films at one time
25.6 oz. / 4 oz. = 6.4 uses = 13 rolls developed

16 / 13 = $1.23 each roll developed

If you use this developer for push processing, discard it
after processing one batch of film. The capacity of the
solution will be lower, and it should not be reused.

used at max. capacity with compensation of 48 rolls, 16 / 48 = 33 1/3 c each roll developed

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi Ian, have you any times for Plus-X or Tri-X at 1+2?

As Mick Fagan says extrapolate to get the times, that's all I did, I had a customer I developed & printed for in the 70's/80's and he wanted his negs processed 1+2 in ID-11 (D76).

Back pre PC's I just used graph paper, FS=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3 and 1+3=4, I have times for Ilford films because that's all we ever used, but can't help with modern Kodak versions sorry.

Ian

 

[Mick Fagan]

Denis R, interesting figures, but I think you may wish to reconsider your figures for T-max developer.

If you develop two rolls at a time, then you cannot develop the thirteenth roll with the bit remaining, I think you would have to round down to 12 rolls and then your pricing would be slightly higher, something like $1.33.

On the other hand you may be able to squeeze another roll, but that would depend upon the minimum requirements of your tank and film area, along with the volume of solution you have left.

Mick.

 

[dancqu]

High Dilutions for Slow Films

Is the sharpness significant enough to offset the increased
amount of grain? Or should I stick with full strength?

If you are shooting slow fine grain films then grain is not
much of a factor. Slow films are little affected in grain size
from one developer to another. Not so for high speed films.

Of course full strength one-shot usage is the LEAST economical
way to use the developer. For one-shot usage dilutions of 1:3 to
1:5 or even 1:7 will see a lot more film through. Of course
a certain amount of chemistry is needed so the needed
solution volume may determine the dilution. Dan

 

[tony lockerbie]

Thanks Mick and Ian. I had a roll of plus-x so I thought I would give it a try. Negs look great, plus-x is 8mins in 1+1, 13mins in 1+3, so I went for 10.5mins at 1+2, worked well.
I mix my own a litre at a time, so this will make it go a bit further.