Moskva 5

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 27, 2003

Hello:

I read opinions on Pxxxx.net on the Moskva 5.

I would be interested in hearing comments from people who hae something good to say about it. I already know there are many who disapprove :O)

Thanks

Murray

Aggie · Oct 27, 2003

Robert Kennedy · Oct 27, 2003

Well, I haven't played with one, but the basics are simple.

This is an older camera from the USSR. Like most of them from that era it is based on Zeiss design. The Soviets LOVED to do that. And it was a smart move really. Let Zeiss design it, we will build it.

You will face of course the usual pitfalls.

- Bellows - Pinholes will almost certainly exist. Just PLAN on them. Get the Bostick and Sullivan repair kit.

- Shutter - Might be stuck or off or whatever.

- Flocking - Might be gone.

This holds with ANY camera though.

If all this works, you could have a decent camera. Lens quality I have heard on ALL the Soviet cameras can vary widely at times. From "Holy crap! This is amazing!" to "All my pictures look like I took them of mud!" Don't count on any coatings besides what nature has provided. This can be good though. I mean people use Holgas and such all the time. Sharp is not always best. Just keep that in mind.

Chaska · Oct 27, 2003

I bought mine a year ago and have enjoyed it. I made sure it had the 6x6 mask and case, figured this would ensure someone cared about it. I have read the feedback, but mine has been good, sharp lens, shutter on, bellows light tight, even the rangefinder is on. Best advice is to be selective/careful of who you buy from, but get one, they are fun to use and good ones produce great results.

By the way the ruby window lets in too much light for color film but B&W is fine.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 28, 2003

OK - thanks all.

I read that the '5' definitely has coated optics.

Too late to be picky about where I got it - price was th efactor and I already sent payment ($35 + 15 ship - can't complain and worth fixing if not up to snuff).

Seller says everything is working - 21 day guarantee
(probably takes 20-22 days for delivery :O) just kidding).

Regarding the red window; does it open/close like an Agfa folder? I am assuming one can keep it closed and check winding for color carefully and quickly in subdued light (DOWN, you photon you!)

Thanks

Murray

Robert Kennedy · Oct 28, 2003

Wow. The 5 has coated optics? Cool.

Actually now I am considering one....

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 29, 2003

Hello, OP.nV in particular:

Some of the links on Alfed's Camera page explicitly note the coated optics and the Russian letter that designates coated optics; a red Cyrillic version of the English (I don't know if it's really English) 'p' that looks vaguely like pi, depending on the font, and is described as an 'upside down 'n' ' visually.

Murray

Murray@uptowngallery · Nov 13, 2003

Now What?

Got the Moskva 5.

Glass looks good, shutter sounds good, bellows looks good, no light leak check yet.

Standard doesn't lock as rigidly as I'd like. Is there a fix?

I took some measurements with a depth micrometer and camera balanced on gage blocks across the film plane, opened closed it and reopened it taking two sets of measurements at 90 degree rotations - there is definitely about 0.030" of tilt in the lens plane - much thicker than film so I presume this is a problem.

Thanks

Murray

Murray@uptowngallery · Nov 19, 2003

Hello:

The lens is not parallel to the film plane by about 0.030" measured at the lens distance ring, just beyond the glass.

This may be in part due to very loose rivets on the folding arms.

I am figuring out a way to tighten them without removing the bellows.

If necessary, then I'll need to find out how other have shimmed the lens mount for parallelism.

The retaining nut for the lens/shutter doesn't look like much fun to loosen, compared to a Agfa folder which was easy.

On the Moskva, when closed, the bellows partially covers the retaining nut. Accessing the retaining nut when the bellows is extended will be interesting, and probably need another custom tool.

Comments appreciated

Murray

Murray@uptowngallery · Dec 1, 2003

Hello:

Series VI 39.5 mm push on adapter was a bear to get on and two bears to get off.

I took some wet/dry silicon carbide paper a caliper and the adapter ring to the laundromat yesterday and 'honed' about 0.002" off the inside diameter of the ring.

I think I had measured 1.5715" and 1.565" respectively for the lens and ring. I ended up at about 1.570 for the ring. It slips on easily now, and takes a modest effort to remove (so it won't fall off).

I think it will even rotate well enough to use with a polarizer (with some care) without affecting focus.

Next step is fixing the wobbly folder rivets and lens parallelism.

Murray

Murray@uptowngallery · Jul 29, 2004

First Roll

Finally...8-9 months later, I shot a roll, and 'went the wrong way' metering shadows and ADDING stops instead of taking away...all overexposed...maybe I can scan negs and at least look at them that way. Duh...

Still haven't been able to tighten the rivets. I had a tool made and I wanted too much flexibility for everycamera and didn't work.

Reworking the tool so it's stronger and will try again.

garryl · Jul 29, 2004

not to drive you away for this fine forum, but- there is a group of knowledgable
Russian camera owner/users/repairers at ;

http://www.beststuff.com/forum/index.php?f=25

Tom Hoskinson · Jul 29, 2004

Murray@uptowngallery said:
Hello, OP.nV in particular:

Some of the links on Alfed's Camera page explicitly note the coated optics and the Russian letter that designates coated optics; a red Cyrillic version of the English (I don't know if it's really English) 'p' that looks vaguely like pi, depending on the font, and is described as an 'upside down 'n' ' visually.

Murray

Just a few comments:

I have a pretty much complete set of Moskva Cameras, including the Moskva 1. All of them are of post WW-II manufacture and all have coated lenses.

The cyrillic character (the upside down "n") simply indicates that the lens is an "Industar." It is a quite decent Tessar design lens.

The weakest point of the camera design is the strut support system for the folding bed/bellows assembly. The struts are easily bent and can cause lens/film plane misalignment.

The Moskvas are good picture takers if everything is properly aligned and functioning correctly. However IMO the best Russian MF Folder is the second model of the Iskra

vazquez · Jul 29, 2004

Tom Hoskinson said:
Just a few comments:

I have a pretty much complete set of Moskva Cameras, including the Moskva 1. All of them are of post WW-II manufacture and all have coated lenses.

The cyrillic character (the upside down "n") simply indicates that the lens is an "Industar." It is a quite decent Tessar design lens.

Yes, that 'N mirror image' letter stand for an uppercase "I" but the red, uppercase, "pi" letter was used in the 50's and earlier 60's by the soviets to mean that the lens was single coatted, it appears on my Jupiter-3 (1964), Jupiter-8 (1956), Jupiter-9 (1959), Industar-24 (1957) but not on my Jupiter-8M (1977), Helios-103 (1983) and Jupiter-12 (1984). I think they stopped to mark the lens around 1972/72. It was sexy to have a single coated lens in the 50's and 60's.

Pedro

Murray@uptowngallery · Jul 30, 2004

I signed onto the Best Stuff forum, too.

I'm determined to tighten those rivets and 'stop the flop' in the front standard.

Murray

vazquez · Aug 2, 2004

I have added some pictures taken with my Moskva-5's to the galery on Best
Stuff, they both seem fine regards focusing, only one of them seems to have
a slight light leak on the left side

Murray@uptowngallery · Aug 4, 2004

Gallery

vazquez said:
I have added some pictures taken with my Moskva-5's to the galery on Best
Stuff, they both seem fine regards focusing, only one of them seems to have
a slight light leak on the left side

I'll go have a look!

ronlamarsh · Oct 13, 2004

I've got a "4" and am very pleased with it as I only paid $69 for it. I had some trouble with the lens focusing properly but once I disassemble and cleaned every thing it works great. I've made some 11x14 enlargements
of images I took in San Fransico and was very pleased with the sharpness and contrast. And you can fold it up and wstick it in your pocket!

Agiyo · Oct 28, 2005

My Moskva 5 experience

My Moskva 5 body is just OK, looks better since I painted the top plate with black wrinkle-finish paint, tho the eyepiece fell out somewhere. But the lens is an absolute gem!

I've used many, many cameras of all formats and manufacturers, and this 105 Industar truly is equal to the very best medium or large format lenses I've ever dealt with, in both sharpness and contrast, out to about 6x7. It truly is spectacular; I can shoot leaves against the bright sun, and they are THERE.

It is so good, matter of fact, that I'm close to mounting it in a Horseman lens board and using it on my 985. I wouldn't even take it apart, lest I change the spacing. This must be an example of one of the statistical few that came out right; I wish I had more of them on decent bodies.

Joe

MattCarey · Oct 28, 2005

Agiyo said:
I've used many, many cameras of all formats and manufacturers, and this 105 Industar truly is equal to the very best medium or large format lenses I've ever dealt with, in both sharpness and contrast, out to about 6x7.

While I am quite fond of my Moscva 5, I wouldn't got that far on the lens.

Below is a picture of a house, and two pictures of the house number. The really sharp one is a Kodak 105mm. Reputedly one of the real sharp lenses. The Kodak resolution is better than my scanner's ability with negatives. The Industar, while good, is not in the same class.

I should note that both were taken about f16 with a tripod and a shutter release. Perhaps I have a bad Industar...

Matt

Nathan Smith · Oct 28, 2005

Murray - I have 2 Mockba-5's, one came set up properly (except for a light leak around the catch on the back which was easily fixed) and the red window doesn't give any trouble with color film. 6x9 chromes rule, I don't miss not having a 6x6 mask.
The 2nd came with lots of problems, all of which were relatively easy fixes, but the rangefinder is out of whack, and THAT my friend is a bear of problem to fix. Do NOT take the front rangefinder apart or mess with it unless it's absolutely necessary. I still haven't gotten mine figured out. A slight adjustment isn't too bad, but once it's taken apart you're in deep, uh, fertilizer.

Matt - it looks to me like that's your problem, not the lens. Make absolutely sure the focus is properly set for infinity. Just my 2 cents.

Nathan

highpeak · Oct 29, 2005

Got mine about two weeks already, some B&W shots are sharp, but the first two rolls of color slide is not as sharp as I think they should be. All the shots required slow shutter speed, about 1/5 sec, and I pressed the shutter while camera on tripod (the reason are 1 selftimer button is broke off, 2 forgot to bring shutter release cable). I guess that's the reason why the pictures are not so sharp? The color rendition is very good.

All in all, my mockba 5 is ok, need more test. Watch this thing open and close up is really a magic to me, and I almost strike a conversation with a nice lady on the sub.

Alex

Nathan Smith · Oct 29, 2005

Hi Alex, yes, it will be hard to tell if it is ok unless you use the cable :0)

If it still has problems, you may need to check the focus: with the camera on a tripod, set the rangefinder to infinitiy and point it at an object that you can see clearly, then place a piece of ground glass across the film plane and look at that image with a magnifier and see if it's truely sharp. I have heard that you can substitute a strip of 'magic' tape across the back for the ground glass.

Nathan

hurdy_gurdyman · Oct 29, 2005

The Moskva 5 can be a great camera, but can take work and a bit of luck to get it there. I had to buy two of them and make one good working camera from the parts. After I made a complete camera, I had light leaks and focusing the rangefinder to do (using a ground glass.) I put thin black foam under the edge of the pressure plate to help with leaks. End result is a compact camera with a great lens. This lens takes as sharp a picture as any of the Kodak lenses I've had (Ektar, Anastar, Anastigmat) as well as the Tessar and Optar I've used. I wonder how many Moskva users that weren't happy with the lens quality just needed to have things aligned properly? I have heard some of the lenses weren't internally lined up right at the factory, so not much could be done with those. One of the cameras I bought had a badly misaligned front standard. The other camera was fine with the standard but had a broken shutter. I put the good shutter on the good camera and went from there. One thing for sure, I got a great lens on this camera!

Here's a link to my yahoo photos pic taken with a Moskva 5. I just wish the internet pic would show the sharpness and nice creamy look the print has.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/the_hurdy_gurdyman/detail?.dir=eac4&.dnm=2522.jpg&.src=ph

This is one camera I intend to keep. Wish it had a bigger viewfinder, though.

Dave

Donald Qualls · Oct 29, 2005

MattCarey said:
I should note that both were taken about f16 with a tripod and a shutter release. Perhaps I have a bad Industar...

No, that's the Moment-24S shutter giving you trouble. The 1/250 speed in the Moskva-5 has a terribly strong spring, and bangs the camera around a bit (that's why it's so noisy for a leaf shutter) -- if you look closely at that image, what you have is camera movement on a diagonal, not a lens problem (or not only a lens problem -- until the movement is sorted, you don't know where the lens is).

Make the same comparison at 1/100, or use the bed tripod socket or the one on the body instead of the one on the everready case knob (if you didn't already) and you'll probably find it works much better.

Moskva 5

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