More than 36 frames?

mopar_guy · May 1, 2010

For multiple exposures on my Olympus cameras the procedure for multiple exposures is as follows:
1. After the first exposure is ended, erect the rewind crank and turn it clockwise as far as it will go to take up film slack.
2. While holding both the rewind knob/crank and the rewind button/release with your fingers to prevent them from moving, wind the film advance lever. Theoretically the film is not wound but the shutter is cocked by this operation.
3. Press the shutter release as you would do normally, and double exposure will occur.
4. By repeating steps 2 an 3, the frame will be exposed as many times as you want. However, the frame counter advances each time the shutter is cocked.
5. After ending the multiple exposure, put the lens cap on and make a blind shot.
NOTE: the frame may shift slightly.

I have also gotten as many as 38 exposures. My frame counters have the number 36 as well as two additional indicators. There is a dot following "36" and then the letter "E". Continuing to advance the film past "E" will do no harm as long as there is still film in the cartridge.

Additionally, there is available the 250 Film Back 1 to utilize bulk film.

CRM-114 · May 1, 2010

Mmmh..moot point, but when I'm getting to frame 30 -32, and the film has been in the camera "for some time", I start being impatient to get it 'finished' and processed, so usually less descriminating about subjet and composition on those last frames...;-)

So more than 36 just prolongs the agony..

Nikon Collector · May 1, 2010

CRM-114 said:
Mmmh..moot point, but when I'm getting to frame 30 -32, and the film has been in the camera "for some time", I start being impatient to get it 'finished' and processed, so usually less descriminating about subjet and composition on those last frames...;-)

So more than 36 just prolongs the agony..

That's why I load my own cassettes with 12-15 shots

Sirius Glass · May 1, 2010

PhotoJim said:
What Nikons are those? All of mine (and I have a lot! ... FE, FM2n, F3HP, F4S, F5, F70, N8008s, F90x, F100) let me shoot to the very end of the roll.

Only the manual-wind Nikons let me start shooting before frame 1 (the F3HP won't let me meter until frame 1 though).

I used to start shooting at frame zero (and occasionally do, especially on unimportant test rolls) but frame 0 is dangerous to shoot since it might be fogged. Frame 37 is dangerous to shoot because some labs will cut it in half during processing. (Dwayne's in Kansas, the last Kodachrome lab in the world, is such a lab.)

N-75 and F-100. If you know how to get more than 36 shots, I would like to know. I am about to use the only two rolls of HIE in the F-100, so this information would be timely.

Steve

PhotoJim · May 1, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
N-75 and F-100. If you know how to get more than 36 shots, I would like to know. I am about to use the only two rolls of HIE in the F-100, so this information would be timely.

If you have auto-rewind enabled, turn it off. Otherwise, load the film normally and simply shoot until the camera will no longer advance. I routinely get 37 exposures on a roll of film.

Worker 11811 · May 2, 2010

Nikon Collector said:
That's why I load my own cassettes with 12-15 shots

I wind 25 clicks on the Watson loader. Take off 3 frames for the head and two for the tail and that leaves me with 20. It's enough film that I don't have to be changing rolls all the time but it's short enough that I don't get impatient.

It also takes the same volume of chemistry to process 10 frames as it takes to process 36. If the rolls get too short you waste too much of your chemicals and you spend more time winding film on your reels and waiting for it to dry.

mhcfires · May 4, 2010

st3ve said:
I get over 9000 frames from a 36 exposure roll.................

When I don't properly load the film.

You too? You must have a Leica Screw Mount camera. My first two rolls on my IIIa were 45 exposure rolls. Blank, each and every frame.

Poisson Du Jour · May 4, 2010

In the days I regularly ran Kodachrome 200 Professional (PKL-200) through my Canon T90 (1987-1991) 38 exposures were the norm before the roll was auto-rewound, and 38 slides came back. If you examine uncut rolls of processed reversal film nowadays e.g. Fujichrome, you'll see there is nothing more after 36. It doesn't seem very common at all now to squeeze another frame or two from any roll.

I recommend against continuing to shoot at end-of-roll mark; the tiny coreless motors can be strained if there isn't anything more to wind on. Even if you turn auto-rewind off, the camera will not fire if the wind mechanism has detected EOR.

declark · May 5, 2010

The 37th frame is always the best shot !

Had a Rollei 35s and it probably got 38 frames or so, but I found the spacing way too thin.

benjiboy · May 5, 2010

declark said:
The 37th frame is always the best shot !

Had a Rollei 35s and it probably got 38 frames or so, but I found the spacing way too thin.

No, the best shot on the roll is the last one, the one they pierce with the film clip whatever the number.

Sirius Glass · May 5, 2010

declark said:
The 37th frame is always the best shot !

Had a Rollei 35s and it probably got 38 frames or so, but I found the spacing way too thin.

No, it is the one you missed as you are rewinding the film!

declark · May 6, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
No, it is the one you missed as you are rewinding the film!

Ain't that the truth. I always wound it real slow because it felt like something might break.

Sirius Glass · May 6, 2010

declark said:
Ain't that the truth. I always wound it real slow because it felt like something might break.

One very cold windy day I quickly rewound 35mm film and when it was developed, it was covered with lightning bolts from static discharge!

removed account4 · May 6, 2010

Tony-S said:
It's Kodachrome.

oh well ...

---
maybe you should just shoot the other camera if you are so worried
about 2 frames ?
or get a half frame camera, then you'll get 2x the shots

nick mulder · May 6, 2010

unhelpful advice (but I cant help myself)

shoot large format

Worker 11811 · May 6, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
One very cold windy day I quickly rewound 35mm film and when it was developed, it was covered with lightning bolts from static discharge!

Working in the projection room, I literally handle miles of 35mm film in a day. In the dead of winter when the humidity gets low the static discharges can get painful.

That is one of the things I think about as I rewind the film in my camera. Consequently, I always rewind the film very slowly.

Furthermore, if there is any dirt in the velor light trap I hope that rewinding slowly will minimize any scratches in the film if not eliminate it all together.

Q.G. · May 7, 2010

Wouldn't that just mean that you scratch the film slowly, instead of rapidly, i wonder.

I think this (fast or slow winding) is one thing in which empiric testing is of great value. And you rarely hear about discharge marks on film due to fast (motordriven even) transport, let alone get a chance to see them produced by you and the way you wind.
Im not saying that they don't occur. But i would dare to suggest that it's not something to worry about constantly. So i never did wind film slowly, unless (yes, the fear got to me too) in sub-freezing conditions.

Worker 11811 · May 7, 2010

I don't know, really. My theory is that the harder you wind the film, the harder any foreign material gets ground into the film.

I have a film rewinding machine at work that can go so fast the reels make a "whizzing" sound as they cut through the air. I don't let people turn the speed up that fast because, when that baby gets going, you can damage a LOT of film, REALLY fast! When you slow the machine down, if you do accidentally damage film, the damage will be less severe and you will have a better chance to stop the film in time to prevent more damage.

Do I think that winding my camera is a 100% foolproof way to keep my photos from being damaged? No. But, I am pretty sure that damage is less likely to occur and, if it occurs, the damage will not be as severe.

Want to have some fun with static electricity?
One of the theaters I used to work at had a rubber mat on the floor by the film bench. We used to load up a reel full of old trailers (which were going to be thrown away) and get it up to full speed then, while standing on the rubber mat, put on a wool mitten and rub it on the film as it goes by at high speed. You can generate enough static electricity to light up a fluorescent lamp tube! On a good, cold winter day I have seen a spark jump almost an inch.

So, I have no doubt that static discharges can ruin film but I, too, would like to run some tests to prove the efficacy of slow vs. fast winding.

More than 36 frames?

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