More neg issues

[Andrew Moxom]

Well, I've eliminated the squeegee and still my problems continue to wreck negatives from the MN North Shore trip. Here is an example of the problem. I am beginning to think there is an issue with my reels and maybe a boiling water and concentrated household bleach solution and a scrubbing pad is what's in order. The strange thing is that I never use photo flow until I take the film of the reels, so the tank and reels never see one drop of it. Also do not think it is a light leak as the light trap is at the other end of the film (Notches side)

The weird thing is, I cannot see anything on the neg when looking at it normally. I've not yet printed it, but its the same as others I've done, neg looks fine, scanning and printing prove otherwise. I guess a loupe is in order on my light table. I'm pissed as there are quite a few rolls like this unfortunately, and it's more prevalent on rolls with lots of sky. I managed to scrape by with some, but most are toast.

Any idea what the lines maybe? Am I right in thinking it's now a reel contamination problem?

 

[Anscojohn]

Andrew,
Do you use a roller processor?

 

[Andrew Moxom]

John, no I use hewes stainless reels in a stainless daylight tank. I agitate using the figure of 8 technique. I turn the tank upside down and back while rotating it to make sure it's even. I wonder if there has been a gradual build up of developer compounds... Strange for stainless, but I know it happens on plastic.

I should tell you my work flow.... Neopan-400 rated at 200. I presoak for 3 minutes with 72 degrees water. Mix Pyrocat HD 1:1:100 at 72 degrees. set timer for 14 minutes. Dump presoak, pour in developer. Agitate for 2 minute continuously using spiral/figure of 8 technique. Agitate for 10 seconds at 9 minutes, 6 minutes, 3 minutes.

Stop using really dilute stop bath as opposed to water stop. Quick rinse using 72 degrees water. Pour in Ilford Hypam fix 1:4 fresh this week. Fix for 5 minutes. Wash, Hypo clear, wash again. Take film off reels and run through bowl of water with photoflow holding film at each end leaving a loop of film in the photo-flo. Hold to drain off excess, place onto line to dry...No squeegees this time.

 

[dlin]

Andrew,

The lines on the negative are on the side where the darkslide is inserted on a Hasselblad back. Given that there are no lines on the opposite side, which would also be in contact with the reel, it is possible that what you are seeing is a light leak from a worn seal. Wouldn't hurt to check and/or replace the seal. Sorry about the negative problems- such beautiful photographs.

All the best,
Daniel

 

[jmal]

I initially thought Daniel might be correct, but it appears that the lines are darker, which means decreased density on the neg. A light leak would produce increased density, resulting in lighter streaks. This is what I see, at least. I also have a hard time understanding how a contaminated reel would cause this as the reel does not touch this part of the neg. However, I am probably one of the least experienced on this forum and could very well be wrong. I agree with Daniel that it's a shame because the photos are very nice. I stinks when one's normal process works flawlessly and then suddenly develops a problem. Best of luck.

Addenedum: On second glance, I can't tell if my eyes are fooling me and the streaks are actually lighter or darker. The brain is a strange thing.

 

[Anscojohn]

Andrew,
I have seen very regular density variations blamed on agitation problems and the other way around. The rather sharp and rather regular decrease in negative density, given your tank and agitation technique leads me to suspect you are on the right track that it might be something in a reel which is inhibiting negative development--on the other hand, the increase in negative density at the very edge of the film mioght, as Daniel suggests, be a film fogging problem. What a condundrum! Regarding reel cleaning, no doubt a good scrubbing with a bristle veggie brush and some Bon ami cake cleanser; some Bar Keeper's Friend; or some Zud certainly cannot hurt.
Is the measured distance between the two lines of decreased negative density consistent with the distance between two coils on the reel?

 

[Ian Grant]

This looks a developer problem and contamination, it's the fact that you have a over developed edge. It's unusual to get a problem with stainless reels but if you've been processing soft emulsions like EFKE then there could be an emulsion/gelatin build up on the reel, this could be harbouring fixer residues.

Clean the reels with boiling water and household bleach (sodium hypochlorite).

Ian

 

[Anscojohn]

Added questions. Has this problem just cropped up recently? Have you changed anything in your technique?; Is there any way can you tell whether the area of increased negative density (as opposed to the lines) in the image would have been on the upper part of the solution or the lower part? Is the increased density area a stain image or can you tell if it is actual increased density of the silver?
It is possible there are two separate and distinct problems; the decreased density in the lines; the increased density along the film edge.

 

[PVia]

Borrow another 120 camera, shoot a roll and develop it with your equipment. It's time for the process of elimination...

 

[JBrunner]

This very much looks like a light leak. The location and defined pattern are consistent with the dark slide seal. I concur with Daniel. The upside? That is the fastest and easiest thing to test and rule out.

 

[MattKing]

Have you tried a print or scan that includes the blank space between frames? If the lines show up there, you might be able to tell more about the source of the problem.

Matt

 

[gainer]

You could also load the developing reel with the film upside down from your usual orientation if you cannot find a light leak. The streaks should then be on the other side of the negative if it is the fault of development. However, I'm also thinking light leak. The streaks are too well defined to be chemically induced. Remove the lens, insert a small flashlight from the front, and look for light coming out around the film holder. The mirror will have to be up, of course.

 

[Andrew Moxom]

I have a roll of Neopan souped with the last batch of film that was taken on my Mamiya 6. I am looking at scanning them now to see of the problem moves to the top and or bottom of that roll as the Blad orients the film top to bottom while the Mamiya left to right. I hope to figure out if its process related or with my reels. I used new chemistry for everything though and could have made a mistake I guess, but not that many times I hope?? I'll post my findings... Thanks again for the responses.

 

[Andrew Moxom]

Okay, another neg scan from a negative made in a different film back as I was using ACROS film but processed in same set of tanks using same reels and this time using Rodinal. So it does not look like a light leak to me as this time the anomaly is on the other side away from the darkslide/light trap..... In a way, I am glad this happened as I was certain my light traps were good as I changed them earlier this year.... Time to clean my tanks and reels again I guess.. WHAT A ROYAL PITA so many potential negs just screwed up completely. Makes me want to consider the evil D*****L word... Just kidding.

 

[dancqu]

There is a symmetry of the lines and they are very straight.
A long shot; pressure placed by the dark-slide's insertion.
Some give within the film back? Dan

 

[Andrew Moxom]

Dan, in the last scan, that is not possible as the darkslide comes form the other side. The common denominator is the film tank and reels as both scans here are differnet films produced from different backs, souped in different chemicals... Pyrocat for the first one and Rodinal for the recent one. Also the problem seems to be on different sides of the film on the long (vertical) edge. I wind the film a specific way onto the stainless reels so am really not sure how the problem appears on different edges to the film.

 

[MattKing]

Andrew:

I'm not sure I'm clear about whether these lines show in prints and scans, or just scans?

If it just appears on scans, it could be a scanning artifact.

Matt

 

[david b]

Andrew,
I feel your pain. I went through some serious film issues a while back and then can totally kick you in the nuts.

Have you asked someone else to develop the film using their tanks and chemistry?

give me a call if you still have my number.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I live close to Andy and have offered to process a roll of film to compare. Not one of the precious rolls, but one that's a test roll. I think the appropriate way to address it would be to shoot two test rolls, and we each develop one to compare. Or one test roll that's cut in half and stored in a light tight container.

I had some problems with sheet film a while back that I couldn't straighten out. It's irritating and wears on the photographer's soul, because so much hard work and effort goes into exposing those negatives. Film and equipment problems is the last thing we need.

I'm very sorry that this problem persists. Let me know if I can help in any way. I have time.

- Thomas

 

[Andrew Moxom]

Thanks David, and Thomas. I may take Thomas up on that idea as he is lives so close, but I am going to try one non important roll of Neopan flim I have from another camera I was working some kinks out of (Balda) first. I will soup the film in my tanks AFTER a thorough and brutal scrubbing clean and see if the problem manifests itself or not. If I still get it then, I am hosed, but then I have eliminated the hasselblad, and film tank/reels from the equation. I doubt it's a film problem as its occurred on a batch of ACROS and a batch of Neopan-400 the common denominator is the film reels and tanks.

 

[mcfactor]

Is it the scanner? You said that you could not see it with the naked eye. is is a scanning issue?

 

[Andrew Moxom]

It could be, but but the negs I have actually printed so far looked clear and printed almost the same as the scans. I hope to try a few of them tonight when I get to do some printing so will look at that.

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

I've had bands due to the level of developer in the tank being too low and with too little agitation. Your lines are peculiar though as it's two dark bands with a 'normal' streak down the middle.

Dumb question but did you put enough developer in? I use Hewes reels too (they are fantastic), your tank is good and solid? The stainless tanks with plastic lids (tundra?) sometimes develop cracks (in the lid) from being pulled on..

Also, is it possible the film wasn't wound tightly after removal from the camera? I've done that a few times, sometimes the adhesive doesn't stick..

 

[CBG]

I suspect correct filling of the tank and correct agitation are the next things to work on. I don't think the issues look like light struck film.

C

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

On the upside, it looks like you can crop out the line pretty easily. I had a similar experience a few years ago. Priceless, irreplaceable images of my uncle's near-historic beach-side clam shack right before it was rebuilt into a colonial-style house. There are a few postcards from the 50s and a few other images but all I have is one roll, all with marks on one edge.. It wouldn't be so bad, except that it is extremely noticeable in areas with sky.

Live and learn I guess but I do feel your pain. Those are beautiful images you have there.