More info and a question about keeping chems in soda bottles.

rpavich · May 22, 2017

I've bought and used mostly Jobo plastic bottles during my film developing and printing time. I've gotten used to how long chems can last when stored in Jobo bottles but recently I read some discussions about plastic soda bottles and their ability to keep chems based on the fact that they are designed to keep carbonation in and thus, air out.
So I stared collecting 1L and 600ML carbonated drink bottles and they work fantastic. I hadn't realized just HOW fantastic until I looked at the chems stored in a jobo bottle at the same time as those stored in the soda bottles; the chems in the jobo were very discolored vs the pristine soda bottles. Not that the chems in the jobo bottle didn't work, just that they looked like they were aging and the others weren't.

So that brings me to my question. Do water bottles have the same chem keeping properties as the soda bottles? They SEEM to be air tight but I'm not 100% sure since they aren't designed to keep carbonation in like the soda bottle.
I'm just wondering since I have a LOT of water bottles from Sam's club in a nice size (8oz)

RalphLambrecht · May 22, 2017

rpavich said:
I've bought and used mostly Jobo plastic bottles during my film developing and printing time. I've gotten used to how long chems can last when stored in Jobo bottles but recently I read some discussions about plastic soda bottles and their ability to keep chems based on the fact that they are designed to keep carbonation in and thus, air out.
So I stared collecting 1L and 600ML carbonated drink bottles and they work fantastic. I hadn't realized just HOW fantastic until I looked at the chems stored in a jobo bottle at the same time as those stored in the soda bottles; the chems in the jobo were very discolored vs the pristine soda bottles. Not that the chems in the jobo bottle didn't work, just that they looked like they were aging and the others weren't.

So that brings me to my question. Do water bottles have the same chem keeping properties as the soda bottles? They SEEM to be air tight but I'm not 100% sure since they aren't designed to keep carbonation in like the soda bottle.
I'm just wondering since I have a LOT of water bottles from Sam's club in a nice size (8oz)

I' sure soda bottles work well but I'mstill concerned somebody is confusing them with a soda drink and suffer the consequences.An unnecessary risk in my opinion.can't recommend it.safety first.

photog_ed · May 22, 2017

My wife drinks San Pellegrino mineral water. It comes in a green one-liter bottle. I've been using them for various storage tasks in the darkroom. I can squeeze the excess air out and they still seal well. The label is removable and of course I apply my own hand-written label. For us there's little safety risk, because there are no children in the house (we're well beyond that stage) and I'm the only who goes in the darkroom. If you have children in the house, I agree there's a safely risk. In our case, grandchildren live far enough away that visits are rare, and when they are here they are under constant supervision.

Gerald C Koch · May 22, 2017

PET soda bottles are excellent for storing developer and other solutions as they are almost as impervious to oxygen as glass ones. This also means that they not pick up anything from their former contents. Just wash them out and don't worry.

BTW it's good practice not to eat or drink anything while in the darkroom. Keep all bottles well marked.

jeffreyg · May 22, 2017

I have used amber pharmacy glass bottles for very many years. The ones I have volume makings which is a plus.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

mklw1954 · May 22, 2017

As for your water bottles, check the plastic code in the triangle located on the bottom of the bottle. PET or PETE has a "1" in the triangle. I have some small water bottles that are PET so maybe yours are as well. Attached is a plastics code list.

I like to use 1 liter plain seltzer water bottles as they have no residual flavoring odor that flavored soda bottles have (don't know if that affects the chemicals).

btaylor · May 22, 2017

I started using the plain seltzer bottles recently after reading posts about how great they are. Well, they really are that great! I always bought plastic bottles from photo suppliers before and they are a poor substitute for the nearly free soda bottles. I have never had such great longevity of color developers before.

Patrick Robert James · May 22, 2017

I just developed some C-41 with chems that had been partially used, then stored in a 1l soda bottle for over a year. I was surprised that it still worked.

If you are going to use them though, label the crap out of them!

rpavich · May 22, 2017

FYI; I make water proof labels for all of these bottles and it's just myself and my wife and we are both aware of the rule "don't drink things that aren't labeled."

rpavich · May 22, 2017

mklw1954 said:
As for your water bottles, check the plastic code in the triangle located on the bottom of the bottle. PET or PETE has a "1" in the triangle. I have some small water bottles that are PET so maybe yours are as well. Attached is a plastics code list.

I like to use 1 liter plain seltzer water bottles as they have no residual flavoring odor that flavored soda bottles have (don't know if that affects the chemicals).

Thanks, I'll check.

afriman · May 22, 2017

rpavich said:
FYI; I make water proof labels for all of these bottles and it's just myself and my wife and we are both aware of the rule "don't drink things that aren't labeled."

How do you make the waterproof labels?

trendland · May 22, 2017

Redfox61 said:
How do you make the waterproof labels?

With a permanent waterresistant
"Edding" in red,blue,black - color as you
like.
1) you draw a skull (with creative character)
2) you additional mark : POISON

3) your datas to developement

4) dark storage outside the reach of Kids.

That it is - seriously!

With regards

AgX · May 22, 2017

Do not store stong alkali solution in these bottles. (We typically do not use that anymore anyway.)

Ian Grant · May 22, 2017

Don't use these bottles unless it's for a very short time. I've stored plant food (liquid) and fixer in them and after a few weeks they have leaked.

Only use thick walled high density plastic bottles or glass.

Ian

trendland · May 22, 2017

Ian Grant said:
Don't use these bottles unless it's for a very short time. I've stored plant food (liquid) and fixer in them and after a few weeks they have leaked.

Only use thick walled high density plastic bottles or glass.

Yes Ian - not every chemical is safe of cause.
But with fixer - I got it since so many years in PET? Allways afraid that it will
leak.
I have to dispose it in concern of enviromental rules - old fixer !

But it is save to decades.

Perhaps not the optimum to stain developers ?

with regards

pentaxuser · May 22, 2017

I realise that after you have used some of the liquid that you squeeze the soda bottle to force out the air and the bottle partially collapses as does the likes of a winebag but whereas the winebag collapses completely without squeezing how does one squeeze a soda bottle flat as it were? It doesn't sound particularly convenient and presumably crushing the bottle progressively risks leaks?

How about an old "hot water bottle" These are thick rubber bottles with screw-in tops which you fill with very hot water and place in your bed on cold winter nights. They are completely and safely collapsible so suffer from none of the drawbacks that soda bottles do but I have no idea if thick rubber is impermeable to air. Are they such objects elsewhere? I think you can still buy them in the U.K. They belong to a time when there was no central heating and we still had an empire that some New Yorkers want to crush ( see Pete Elgar's thread on his pictures in New York)

pentaxuser

trendland · May 22, 2017

pentaxuser said:
I realise that after you have used some of the liquid that you squeeze the soda bottle to force out the air and the bottle partially collapses as does the likes of a winebag but whereas the winebag collapses completely without squeezing how does one squeeze a soda bottle flat as it were? It doesn't sound particularly convenient and presumably crushing the bottle progressively risks leaks?

How about an old "hot water bottle" These are thick rubber bottles with screw-in tops which you fill with very hot water and place in your bed on cold winter nights. They are completely and safely collapsible so suffer from none of the drawbacks that soda bottles do but I have no idea if thick rubber is impermeable to air. Are they such objects elsewhere? I think you can still buy them in the U.K. They belong to a time when there was no central heating and we still had an empire that some New Yorkers want to crush ( see Pete Elgar's thread on his pictures in New York)

pentaxuser

Not so bad (your thoughts).
Notice : Regarding these special bottles from PET plastic we see different types.
Rollei as a manufacturer and distributor of c-41chemicals and bw developer a.s.o.
uses these PET bottles with a little more
thickness and stated out advantages from it in first 2008 as I remember correct. May be they have it in use since
2005.
You can avoid protectan gas or glass perles by mechanical compression of these bottles with max. effect to have
then filled totally full.
Additional (Rollei stated) you wil have no
diffundation of oxigen through the PET as you will not have it too with glass bottles.
Some times later I saw same PET in big
supermarket with orange juice.
You should not use 1,5 Liter( thin PET ) it
will work also - but with less stability.
It sounds clear that this will cause leaked
chemistry die to mechanical damage of plastic when it is in use often (the same bottle times to times).
And due to agressive chemicals it is not safe we all could imagine.
At least - you can replace the PET with more material thickness from time to time. Before material is strongly damaged. I have it since years - (mostly
oneway use). Never get trouble from it.
And remember : If glass bottles crashes to room botton with chemicals inside .

with greetings to you pentaxuser

Gerald C Koch · May 22, 2017

pentaxuser said:
I realise that after you have used some of the liquid that you squeeze the soda bottle to force out the air and the bottle partially collapses as does the likes of a winebag but whereas the winebag collapses completely without squeezing how does one squeeze a soda bottle flat as it were? It doesn't sound particularly convenient and presumably crushing the bottle progressively risks leaks?

How about an old "hot water bottle" These are thick rubber bottles with screw-in tops which you fill with very hot water and place in your bed on cold winter nights. They are completely and safely collapsible so suffer from none of the drawbacks that soda bottles do but I have no idea if thick rubber is impermeable to air. Are they such objects elsewhere? I think you can still buy them in the U.K. They belong to a time when there was no central heating and we still had an empire that some New Yorkers want to crush ( see Pete Elgar's thread on his pictures in New York)

pentaxuser

Unfortunately rubber contains sulfur used in its processing and in the case of red rubber goods also selenium. Not what you would want contaminating developers.

trendland · May 22, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
Unfortunately rubber contains sulfur used in its processing and in the case of red rubber goods also selenium. Not what you would want contaminating developers.

Have read this just as a joke gerald!
Rubber goods

!
Phantastic PET storage but it seams not
to be so to everybody. BUT THIS IS JUST
OK.

For me please no rubber goods - hope
that is also ok to others.

with regards

rpavich · May 24, 2017

Redfox61 said:
How do you make the waterproof labels?

I bought them from amazon. They are made by avery.

photog_ed · May 24, 2017

rpavich said:
I bought them from amazon. They are made by avery.

I use yellow "Frog Tape" used for painting. I cut a strip to whatever length I need for a label. You can write on it with a sharpie, it's easily removed with no residue, and it's waterproof. Buy a roll at the hardware store (I had some left over from painting) and it will last you years.

RalphLambrecht · May 24, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
PET soda bottles are excellent for storing developer and other solutions as they are almost as impervious to oxygen as glass ones. This also means that they not pick up anything from their former contents. Just wash them out and don't worry.

BTW it's good practice not to eat or drink anything while in the darkroom. Keep all bottles well marked.

I agree, and it is also a safe practice not to put non foods into food containers!

pentaxuser · May 24, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
Unfortunately rubber contains sulfur used in its processing and in the case of red rubber goods also selenium. Not what you would want contaminating developers.

Bang goes my idea then. I presume that the sulphur leaches out if in contact with developer or fixer and ruins the chemicals? As you haven't mentioned rubber being permeable I take it that it wouldn't allow air in through the surface.

These bottles were almost indestructible. You could drop them and they'd bounce. They were easily cleaned as well.

pentaxuser

btaylor · May 24, 2017

Concerning damage to the plastic bottles from squeezing out the air, I haven't had an issue yet, but I have plenty of replacements ready! Also, there isn't any reason to squeeze them flat, just use a smaller bottle. On the smaller ones I sometimes add marbles to make up space. All of my bottles are labeled, dated and kept in a locked darkroom, hopefully no one will enter and start chugging blix-- but I understand the concern.

Gerald C Koch · May 24, 2017

pentaxuser said:
Bang goes my idea then. I presume that the sulphur leaches out if in contact with developer or fixer and ruins the chemicals? As you haven't mentioned rubber being permeable I take it that it wouldn't allow air in through the surface.

These bottles were almost indestructible. You could drop them and they'd bounce. They were easily cleaned as well.

pentaxuser

The sulfur and selenium would be released as various compounds like sulfides and not as elementals.

Rubber is permeable to various gases. Yesterdays latex balloon no longer floats because the helium has escaped through the rubber. However hot water bottles are made of thick rubber so this would not be a problem.

You can get glass bottles coated with plastic to prevent them from shattering and creating a mess when dropped.

More info and a question about keeping chems in soda bottles.

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