Money question

The more I distance myself from the profession of photography, the more I enjoy photography. With that said, my previous work lent itself towards boudoir housewives and professional musicians as clients. If I ever find a way that makes good business sense to marry my love for film photography with an opportunity for a second income, I will take it seriously. But housewives and musicians seldom make for the best clientele so I would focus on other opportunities.

Old Fart said:

Hobby. But, more than that, I think of it as therapy. I was a very serious and dedicated smoker for about 23 years. That was my hobby. When looking for a way to stop, I (finally) realized that I couldn't afford to buy cigarettes if all that money was wrapped up in photography, an old hobby revisited. Within a short time I was so absorbed in the photography hobby, I couldn't find the time to even "think" about smoking. That was some 9 years ago . . . Cold turkey, over night. Within a couple of weeks of replacing cigarettes with photography, I was completely cured. No more coughing and hacking, and my sense of smell and taste all returned within a year or so. Things I have learned from this . . . 1. Money can be found, but there will probably be a trade-off. 2. Smoking is not an addiction, it's just a habit. If you want to quit, then change your habit to something that is more interesting (and safer). 3. Now, I have this stupid habit of taking a camera everywhere I go . . .

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Pro smoker, amateur photographer here.

Since a pack of 10 is nearly a roll of film in the UK, you'd think I'd have quit by now. Tomorrow...

batwister said:

Since a pack of 10 is nearly a roll of film in the UK, you'd think I'd have quit by now. Tomorrow...

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The drummer in my band quit at the start of this year. He has been putting away the money he would have spent on cigarettes and now has £250 saved which he wouldn't have had otherwise.

Definitely worth thinking about. I might even start myself so I can give up and save the money!


Steve.

Recovering wedding photographer ...

.. now strictly a hobby.

(But I'm still very good at it)

What I do is I like to surround myself with others that have the same passion as myself and we split the costs. In some large cities there are communal darkrooms. I let my friends use my darkroom as long as they chip in. For my day job I work at a corporate video studio as a TD, we use digital at work 100% of the time, I'm used to it and it bores the hell out me. Working w/ analog was how I initially learned my trade and still having much to learn I won't be giving it up anytime soon.

Serious hobby (I don't mind selling a print here and there, but it happens only rarely), but it still costs less than hubby's hobbies (rebuilding a muscle car; guns). And hubby buys cameras for me.

I teach photography (analog!!!) at a community college. I teach what I love, get paid for it, then go home to spend that money doing what I love.

batwister said:

Pro smoker, amateur photographer here.

Since a pack of 10 is nearly a roll of film in the UK, you'd think I'd have quit by now. Tomorrow...

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It is a terrible, terrible habit. Don't wait until you need to have both of your lungs removed. I'm sure that would cost a bundle. Money which otherwise could have gone towards basic photographic supplies.

i am a dedicated amateur. Nevertheless, I have sold quite a few photographs and done a few commissions.

I have been asked by friends several times if my hobby pays for itself. Far from it.

They have a hard time getting their heads around doing something so costly with such little monetary reward. The irony is that most are golfers. I ask them how much money they make playing golf. They finally get it.

Thank you all for the feedback, as I see most are hobbyist and we all have to manage the cost the best we can to keep it up.
Let's hope the prices get stable.

I'm strictly hobby too. I process film for a guy at work which covers some costs. I have not sold any prints, but if the opportunity arose, I would probably take it. For the most part, its not too costly for me at the moment. I got a great deal on my aunt's old darkroom equipment. She is a wedding/studio photographer who has been digital for last 15 years. I also got a boatload of paper from her that is old, but still in very good condition. A few 100 packs of 16X20 fibre paper...yea probably $600-800 worth of paper in all. Once I eat through that, it will get more costly for me and I may start looking for simple ways to SUPPORT my hobby.

At least this hobby has the POTENTIAL to help pay for itself. My other hobby is homebrewing. It is legal to brew up to 200 gallons per year per household. Selling homebrewed beer is strictly illegal without the proper licensing (and taxing) in all states.

Just a hobby, for 40years and all cameras are as old, have a part time job now that pays all photo stuff, am retired from driving trucks in circles all day eeh haaa. My wife pays for every thing else just about, even a plane ticket to Japan to visit her relatives, and I'll be taken my recently cleaned and adjusted Rolliecord there to take Photo's eeh, haaa.

Mike

batwister said:

Pro smoker, amateur photographer here.

Since a pack of 10 is nearly a roll of film in the UK, you'd think I'd have quit by now. Tomorrow...

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Old Fart said:

It is a terrible, terrible habit. Don't wait until you need to have both of your lungs removed. I'm sure that would cost a bundle. Money which otherwise could have gone towards basic photographic supplies.

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As he is in the UK it won't cost him anything. Still not a good reason to cause its necessity though.


Steve.

Allen Friday said:

The irony is that most are golfers. I ask them how much money they make playing golf. They finally get it.

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Yeah, but golf is a bigger waste of time.

Photographers, especially those who specialise in long exposure work, literally make the most of theirs. Uh oh... zen moment.

Hobby sice I was 19-now66. Went to college on GI bill, lived at home-that helped me get some euuip. and shoot. Been disabled since then; a little disability check plus livivng with my mother until I was 57{she died then} has left me with all the equip. I want. Only problem is the price of paper.

I am a hobbyist and don't make any money off of photography. I run a CNC lathe at a small machine shop. I have several ways of dealing with the cost of G.A.S. I live with my grandmother for 600usd a month. Living in a house with yard and garage sure beats 800+ and utilities for an apartment. I spend very little on clothes. Wal Mart and Goodwill are where I get most of my clothes. I bought a 3 year old car and paid it off in 3 years. It is a car that has very poor resale value(and very reliable)-Mercury Grand Marquis. And don't plan on getting another car anytime soon-it's only 7 years old now. I tend to buy gear and sell some of it later. But it seems what I want to buy is always more expensive than what I sold to fund it. The "poor man's lenses" are usually what I go after. I got a 50 1.4 for a small fraction of what a 50 1.2 costs. The 105 2.5 I have costs a small fraction of a 105 1.8. Give up 1/2-1 stop and save hundreds. And most of the photo gear I buy is used. I still have tube type TV's. Who cares if they're over 10 years old, they work just fine. I record my LP's to CD so I don't have to buy the CD of what I already have.

Just an obsession with me for the last sixty years.

LucRoMar and others:

This topic is more poignant than would appear due to the rarity of this subject being brought out into the open. Most who wish to broach the topic are embarrassed or ashamed to admit that they are so strapped and simply amazed with the money being spent out there. In the last decade or two there has been a monumental disparity between incomes and intimidation is profound, for many.

For myself, I have an obsession with finding needed stuff that costs little. As far as cameras and lenses go, the market is saturated with this stuff and deals are to be had,unless you look only at the prices for B&H's (and others') used equipment! I use bare essentials: a Meopta 35mm enlarger that takes easy to buy 211 or 140 lamps. Raw chemicals (metol, HQ, sodium sulfite, sodium carbonate (washing soda)... And B&W paper: you cannot find cheaper than Adorama's house brand. I wait for deals (craigslist or local) for film, especially 100 ft rolls. My own circumstances are past embarrassment in that, despite having an Accounting degree and passing the CPA Exam, a position is nonexistent, and I want to wait until 70 before tapping into Social Security because the current rate is very low. Of course, age is the most defiled attribute one can possibly have in this job market.

For the younger folks who are intimidated by those who seem to have endless amounts of cash to spend: oftentimes that is the result of not spending elsewhere or, yes, some of us really do have good incomes. But try to learn how to take advantage of deals and learn to spot them. Be careful not to waste film: i cut rolls in the dark and load with tape so that I do not waste 5 frames every time I load. Be careful not to waste paper: do tests on only a small cut of paper, not a whole sheet. And mix chemicals: I use volume calibrated in ml, rather than having to buy a scale. Learn the metric equivalents (spoon measuring = 5ml per teaspoon and 15ml per tablespoon. Or, better, get a tiny calibrated tube for accurate volumetric measurements.

Life is NOT fair but that does not have to mean that you do not get to take part. Let the rich folks have their expensive cameras. They just might not take better pictures. - David Lyga

I'm a semi-pro-hobbyist, I suppose you would say.

I spend most of my time at my day job working with Illustrator and Photoshop. I run a small studio in my office where I take all our product photos for our website, as well as print publication. That's all done in digital.

Outside of work, I create photographs for my own pleasure. My style, to the extent I have one, is to be extremely deliberate in setting up the scene. Within limits, nothing is left to chance. Over the past few months, those efforts have gone entirely back to film. (there was a url link here which no longer exists) is the first final product from my return to film.

As far as money goes, my investment in digital (Nikon D7000, Nikkor f/2 105 DC lens, lots of software, studio lighting) was covered by my company (which I own). My spending on analog is really pretty minimal.

PS: I should add...On a relatively frequent basis I get asked to shoot this or that, including weddings. No chance. I'd rather enjoy what I do than worry about getting paid. The greatest freedom of all is being able to work to your own ends. The thought of having to accommodate someone else's tastes horrifies me.

Dreaming of being a successful photographer, trying to actually make some money from my passion, I tried for a while to reach out and have prints sold. Back in 2008, just before my divorce, I actually broke even with my photography, and made a little bit more money than I spent.

I stopped chasing that dream, because often decisions were made based on what might sell, and not what was in my heart. So from now on I only ever make prints of photographs that I love myself, and let the rest fall as it may. If somebody wants to buy my work - great. If not, at least I'm happy with my accomplishment.

So I'm strictly an amateur, with a few sales here and there. I certainly do not aspire to become a professional.

My professional working life commenced in 1992 and ended in 2010. It is a nose-to-the-grindstone occupation that I would never take up now I am "semi-retired",but still active with the wisdom of experience behind me. I tell others "don't do it!". I do have a story to tell, and wrinkles that confirm that story.

From beginning, during and right to the end I had the support of family which provided the financial foundations for the business through a Trust Fund (which still operates). Start-up capital was provided by the Government's New Enterprise Incentive Scheme (at that time) and a Business Incubator Grant from the National Association for the Visual Arts (an Australian arts body). It's one thing to be jumping with glee when the first cheque comes along, but quite another to stretch it over several weeks until the next prospective sale comes along! Not helped with bills to pay. All during this time, the car was being used for up to 1400km of travel each fortnight and eventually became so unreliable through mileage and wear and tear that we had to make a tilt at the Trust Fund to purchase another — at the same time I announced I was retiring from professional photography. There would never have been any sort of business without those first couple of injections of start-up capital. I had a small shop in Castlemaine (country Victoria) in which I shared with three other artists as an outlet through which word could be viewed and purchased. It's all history now and I'm bloody relieved I'm out of it!!

The horror of the current age is the threat that digital has over traditional analogue production: people can buy a top-line digital camera and with very little training (and leaving everything to the camera to decide!) come back with an image that, with my bet on two shakes of a lamb's tail, will be as good as if not better than the time- and labour-intensive art produced from analogue in a wet darkroom. It might be romantic, artful, skilled and beautiful work, but it is up against mightily stiff competition that is all too ready to pounc. At least in all my time I had access to analogue labs for printing (which was excruciatingly costly: fancy living on a boiled egg each week?). Work was sold by way of mouth to a small number of clients that had first met me in 1997 and proverbially "followed me around". Placinig work up on the web for sale only resulted in that work being pirated and called the art of some other imposter, which annoyed the hell out of me: I pulled all of my web presence in 2005.

The crux of the matter is that if you are going to be an analogue practitioner and make a living from it, you have to have a certain, definable, definite edge over the competition of digital. Being an artisan is not enough in our times, nor being an artisan who loves his work and puts heart and soul into it: people can do the same thing, faster, easier, better and cheaper than payingn an "old school" analogue master. Sad but true. Yes, there are a few here on APUG that will swear they have the market cornered in analogue as active professionals, but others too, will leave film to the hobby side of their interest while digital takes care of business.

DWThomas said:

I'm strictly a hobbyist and now retired from engineering and software development. I have sold a few prints and gathered an occasional award in a show, but my net annual gain (which still includes occasional gear acquisition) is probably in excess of minus one thousand dollars. I mean, what the heck, I don't do drugs, race motorcycles or sports cars ...

Many years back, I shot a few B&W advertizing photos for some friends, but I concluded the quickest way to take the joy out of a hobby is to make it a business.

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AMEN!

I never recovered from the economic crash and gas price run-up of 2008. I just exist now. I could actually handle the photo supply prices, but it takes gasoline to get to where the pictures are. So, effectively, it has ended.

Working two jobs, one photo related (teaching) the other a summer weekend gig, and hoping for whatever freelance event stuff that pops up through word of mouth. I roll and develop my black and white film, I rarely shoot color and when I do, I send out for develop only to keep costs down. I try to buy short date or expired films if the right deal pops up, usually the slower stuff. Have my own darkroom to print in. Pretty much all my gear was bought used, many times bought broken to be fixed by myself to use, not show pieces at all. I haven't sold any of my prints (though I have never tried to), I make them for myself, and to give to friends and family. Not sure anyone would buy them anyway, mostly street. It's been though to hack it so far, not many jobs such as assisting that are not internships, and analog/darkroom jobs seem to be nonexistent.

Tom1956, I have one up on you: I have NEVER in my life owned a car but have had a drivers' license continuously since 1966. My 'car' is public transport.

"Getting by' has, more or less, the same meaning for both of us (and many other readers who might be too hesitant to admit such). For some, financial 'ability' is an oxymoron and those with all the money they could possibly need oftentimes do not really understand that thought. Some time ago I posted about the high price of film and HALF the responders thought I was either crazy or misguided to assert such. I will say again: film prices, with few exceptions, are sky high. I am 63 and when I was growing up film prices were not even an afterthought to ANYONE because they were ALWAYS SO AFFORDABLE, EVEN CHEAP. (And Hershey bars were only 5 cents till I was about 13!) - David Lyga