moersch amidol and amidol with non-azo papers

phritz phantom · Jul 13, 2007

hi,
since the amidol paper developers are constantly getting rave reviews, here and elsewhere, i came to the conclusion that i have to try it.
so the only problem is that amidol is pretty much unavailable in continental europe or horribly expensive, like $130 for one hundred grams. that's the case with all the sources i know of and i don't know about the u.k., but ordering from there is just about as expensive as from the us and many times impossible with certain chemicals which are considered hazardous.

the only practicable way of getting some form of amidol developer is the moersch amidol/ catechol two-bath developing kit.
has anybody ever tried that and compared it to classic amidol formulas? i know there's quite a variation on amidol formulas and each will give a different result, but there seems to be something like the "amidol-look" or otherwise people wouldn't love it as much.

and secondly, is amidol even worth trying with standard papers, which are not azo? kentmere fineprint vc (baryt) is the paper i usually use. i'm afraid azo is as unavailable in europe as amidol is.

thanks.

payral · Jul 13, 2007

Kodak stopped producing Azo paper some months ago.
If you didn't try it before, I think it's a bit late now.
If you are looking for some contact only chloride paper, you will have to waite for Lodima Fine Art paper to become available.

herb · Jul 13, 2007

I am not familiar with the amidol/catechol two bath developer, but as a devoted Amidol user, I can also admit I get good results with the Ilford cool/warmtone products, and of course there are many others.
A group was put together last year to buy chinese Amidol, which I was part of, and it is as good as the more expensive kind - it does not mix nearly as well, and it gives dark solution.
That said, you may be able to find somebody in the group willing to part with some, we paid about $100 per kilo, maybe $120.

ath · Jul 13, 2007

You can see some sample pictures in Wolfgang Moerschs gallery: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/bilder.php?galerie=se20amidol (in german).

The shedlight papers are rebranded forte afaik.

phritz phantom · Jul 13, 2007

thanks for the fast replies.

actually i don't want to jump on the azo wagon. i'm not doing largeformat right now and am not that keen on contact printing. my question was more about whether people successfully use amidol with papers other than azo or not.

and if the moersch kit yields the same look as the classic formulas. or if i have to order raw amidol from the u.s. which is possible (i think) but not very practical.

rootberry · Jul 13, 2007

Please please, try Ansco 130! I love amidol, and used it for a year with AZO. When the paper died, I switched to kentmere bromide papers, but kept using the same amidol formula, which is messy and will stain your fingernails black as midnight! I switched to Ansco 130 and haven't looked back, and as far as I can see, the prints are nearly identical. Give it a go, the stuff lasts forever !

Ole · Jul 13, 2007

The Moersch Amidol developer is totally different from the more "famous" azo developer. The Amidol part is a very soft-working developer, and the catechol part is very hard-working. By adjusting the time in the two baths most graded papers can produce any contrast from a very very soft 0 (like a "-2") to a very hard 5.

There is actually at least one source for Amidol in Europe: Myself. To cover the extra shipping and tax etcetera I need to charge a little more than $130/kg, but still far less than $1.30/gram.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 13, 2007

Another vote for Ansco 130 and/or Ilford Warmtone/Cooltone developers. The Ansco is a great overall developer, and as mentioned, it has incredible keeping power. Soup your prints in it for about 3 mins instead of the normal 2. I've got some comparison prints posted in the gallery here if you'd like to see scans.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

That's the Bergger VCCB (warmtone) paper in the four developer combos.

Peter Schrager · Jul 13, 2007

amidol

I use amidol with AZO but also with other assorted graded papers to very good use. also can use use dektol variant with a water bath-and why not?? I have some older Brovira that will not make a print with amidol so I use ZoneVI dev. and a water bath. nice thing about photography-all you have to do is actually try and see if it works!!
Best, Peter

phritz phantom · Jul 13, 2007

rootberry said:
Please please, try Ansco 130! I love amidol, and used it for a year with AZO. When the paper died, I switched to kentmere bromide papers, but kept using the same amidol formula, which is messy and will stain your fingernails black as midnight! I switched to Ansco 130 and haven't looked back, and as far as I can see, the prints are nearly identical. Give it a go, the stuff lasts forever !

yes, i heard about that before and wanted to try it. i've only tried ansco 135 so far (which has no glycin) which i liked.
glycin is another one of those loved ingredients, which are almost unavaiable and horribly expensive. there's only one source i know of and it costs $30 for 25gr (thats also $120 for 100gr.) and 25gr is only enough to make two litres of stock solution.
considering my chemistry skills and the possibility that glycin might go bad after a while, i thought it wasn't worth bothering. and i wasn't too sure, if the differences to my normal developer (eukobrom) were big enough to justify the expenses and trouble.
but i'll try it at least once, soon.

and ole, your offer sounds mighty interesting. i will eventually contact you about that. do you only sell in kilos, which might be too much for a first time try, or do you sell quantities like 500gr or 250gr as well?

Ole · Jul 13, 2007

Ansco 130 is a great developer, as is FX-2 for film. So if it weren't for the cost and difficulty in getting Glycin, I'd use both a lot more.

As to amidol - I'd like to keep some kilos myself (for future use and/or trade), so I can sell any quantity you want.

Amund · Jul 13, 2007

The Chinese amidol work great if you filter the solution before use IMO. I filter through regular coffee filters, and while it stays dark red, there`s no problems with spots etc...

phritz phantom · Jul 13, 2007

Ole said:
The Moersch Amidol developer is totally different from the more "famous" azo developer.

ok, will stay away from the moersch kit and try to get some raw amidol.

i would try the moersch stuff just once so i can see if i liked amidol or not, but if it doesn't even look the same...
and the other reason is that a kit for $50 only produces 2 litres of working solution, and it won't keep more than a few days. so if i use half a litre per session, i'd have to reorder every fourth session (assumed that i like how it works) this sometimes can mean every month or so.
actually i came to the conclusion that this kit is quite useless...
thanks for all your replies.

Ole · Jul 13, 2007

Useless???

Not at all! It's beyond all comparison the best developer I've ever found for controlling contrast! The final results are wondrous - with the right troublesome negative and the right paper there is no better developer. This is what you use when you have a negative that you know is good, but all the prints you make are boring. Get out a good graded paper and a Moersch Amidol Plus kit, and start printing. There's nothing like it - and I've tried more papers and developers than most.

phritz phantom · Jul 13, 2007

okok,
i'm sorry, let me rephrase that:
the moersch kit might not be the best decision for a developer for daily use and that's the way i wanted to use it. more like a possibility in special or difficult situations.
i like the examples in the gallery on the moersch hp quite a lot, especially the ones with colder tones. but as nice as the pictures are, there's no way i could afford it as my standard developer.

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