Mixing gloop for carbon transfer

paul_c5x4 · Sep 14, 2010

Looking at the (few) recipes for mixing the gloop for carbon transfer printing, they all appear to be pretty similar - 80-100g gelatin per litre plus a spoon full or two of sugar. However, the recipes seem to be somewhat vague on the quantity of pigment to add, and suggest either india ink or a tube of water colour.

My local artist supplies stock a range of pigments in pure powder form and I now have a bag of ivory black to use... A question for the experts: Typically, how much of this raw pigment should I be using per litre as a starting point ?

Vaughn · Sep 14, 2010

Using powdered pigments will be a challenge, but certainly not an insurmountable one. The trick will be to get a even dispersment though-out the gelatin without clumping of the pigment. I use lampblack watercolors -- about 5 grams or so for a liter of glop. It is easy to mix in and gives me good consistancy. How much of that 5 grams is the actual carbon, I do not know -- most of the weight is probably the water and gum arabic.

I'll remain vague on the actual amount of pigment -- that varies so much from the pigment type and the company making it, and by what one wants the print to look like (pigment concentration affects contrast, raised relief, tissue speed, et al).

Good luck!

Hexavalent · Sep 14, 2010

If you're just starting out making carbon tissue, do yourself a favour and buy some India ink.

Dry pigments can be a real pain: my experience is that the dry pigment needs to be blended with a carrier (typically gum arabic) and then added to the gelatin mix.
Getting a clump-free pigment mix takes a fair amount of blending: I used a palette knife on a small piece of glass -- pinch of pigment, drop or two of gum, mix blend, mix, little more pigment, little more gum, drop of water..mix, blend, mix and so on, and so on. A drop of photo-flo and/or alcohol may help with the dispersion. It is messy.

As powdered pigment tends to be light fluffy stuff, try making a mix of pigment/carrier (say 1 tsp each or whatever makes a nice paste), and then determine how much of that is needed to produce 'glop' with the density you desire.

I use 'Royal' India ink for most work, tweaking the colour with watercolour paint if needed - it's repeatable and much simpler than using dry pigments.

Vaughn · Sep 14, 2010

Black Cat Ink (from Dick Blick) is another favored ink for carbons -- have not used it. Might someday.

Vaughn

PS...I use more than a spoonful or two of sugar -- about 80 grams per liter. This is on the high side of normal, but it works for me in my climate and process.

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

paul_c5x4 said:
Looking at the (few) recipes for mixing the gloop for carbon transfer printing, they all appear to be pretty similar - 80-100g gelatin per litre plus a spoon full or two of sugar. However, the recipes seem to be somewhat vague on the quantity of pigment to add, and suggest either india ink or a tube of water colour.

My local artist supplies stock a range of pigments in pure powder form and I now have a bag of ivory black to use... A question for the experts: Typically, how much of this raw pigment should I be using per litre as a starting point ?

Recipes are vague about the amount of pigment needed because the strength of colorants varies a great deal depending on type and manufacturer. I would avoid powder pigments unless there is some particular color you are after and it is not available anywhere else. You can make dry pigments work but it is a lot of trouble and does not make a carbon print any better than easier to use pigments like tube watercolors, Sumi ink, India Ink or Black Cat or Speedball Ink that you can buy from Dick Blick.

You will find that the actual amount of gelatin and siugar also vary a lot because there are many different kinds of gelatins and people in different areas of the country prefer to use more or less sugar. I use one gelatin that needs a 14% solution to have the same working characteristics as another that needs only 10%. And I typically use only about 30 grams fo sugar per liter, which is on the low side.

Sandy King

holmburgers · Sep 14, 2010

Slightly off topic, but what is commonly used in tri-color carbon for the CMY? Again, watercolors?

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

holmburgers said:
Slightly off topic, but what is commonly used in tri-color carbon for the CMY? Again, watercolors?

There are only a handful of people making tri-color carbon prints so I would not say that any specifc pigment is "commonly used." Tube watercolors work fine but are quite expensive compared to other pigments that disperse in water. If I were to do this I would probably try the Createx brand of colorants, or perhaps Cal Tint II or Mixol colorants. As I recall three-color sets are available with all three of these brands. The pigment inks that are used for inkjet printing would also work well and would make for very smooth prints, but would also be pretty expensive.

Sandy King

holmburgers · Sep 14, 2010

Thanks Sandy, 'tis a shame that so few are doing tri-color.

Mind if I PM you with some more specific questions? I don't want to hijack this thread just for my sake.

lxdude · Sep 14, 2010

Is gloop a technical term?

Vaughn · Sep 14, 2010

lxdude said:
Is gloop a technical term?

Perhaps in Great Britain -- on this side of the Atlantic the technical term is "Glop"

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

lxdude said:
Is gloop a technical term?

No, but many carbon printers use it. Not absolutely sure when and where the term originated. I may have seen it first in a technical paper by a fellow named Bob Nugent that was put up on the B&S website some years ago.

Sandy King

ghostcount · Sep 14, 2010

sanking said:
No, but many carbon printers use it. Not absolutely sure when and where the term originated. I may have seen it first in a technical paper by a fellow named Bob Nugent that was put up on the B&S website some years ago.

Sandy King

What was it called before? :confused:

Photo Engineer · Sep 14, 2010

Now Sandy, I've heard you call it "glop"!

So, as a diehard purist, which is right?

PE

tim k · Sep 14, 2010

I think gloop would be a slightly thinner version of glop.

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
Now Sandy, I've heard you call it "glop"!

So, as a diehard purist, which is right?

PE

Ron,

Yes, I call it glop. When I responded earlier I just assumed that "gloop" was a spelling error. I am sure you have observed, as I have, that people in the UK don't know how to spell!! And their pronunciation is sometimes not good either.
In any event we folks here in the US call the stuff "glop". Before there was glop I called it "pigmented gelatin solution."

Sandy

ghostcount · Sep 14, 2010

sanking said:
Ron,

Yes, I call it glop. When I responded earlier I just assumed that "gloop" was a spelling error. I am sure you have observed, as I have, that people in the UK don't know how to spell!! And their pronunciation is sometimes not good either.
In any event we folks here in the US call the stuff "glop". Before there was glop I called he stuff "pigmented gelatin solution."

Sandy

"pigmented gelatin solution" (PiGS)

Vaughn · Sep 14, 2010

tim k said:
I think gloop would be a slightly thinner version of glop.

Glop does sound a bit gooier than gloop...

But I have heard that it is an onomatopoeia for the sound of oatmeal or some other kind of mush being served in mess halls.

Jim Fitzgerald · Sep 14, 2010

If you are a carbon printer then it has to be Glop! Glop is good! Learn to make good glop and your prints will benefit for sure. Me I use 100 grams of gelatin, 50 of sugar and pigment from 6 grms to 14. There are many variables to consider. Find a standard formula and learn the process and then venture out. The waters are very choppy if you go out to soon.

Jim

Hexavalent · Sep 14, 2010

Vaughn said:
Glop does sound a bit gooier than gloop...

But I have heard that it is an onomatopoeia for the sound of oatmeal or some other kind of mush being served in mess halls.

When I pour from an Erlenmeyer, it's more of a Glorp than a Glop

Vaughn · Sep 14, 2010

Hexavalent said:
When I pour from an Erlenmeyer, it's more of a Glorp than a Glop

You cook your oatmeal in an Erlenmeyer Flask?! That is hard-core chemicalosity.

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

Jim Fitzgerald said:
The waters are very choppy if you go out to soon.

Jim

If you plan to be a great carbon printer you might want to remember the words of the "ghost" Hank Williams in David Allan Coe's The Ride.

He said "Drifter can ya make folks cry when you play and sing?
Have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues?
Can you bend them guitar strings?"
He said "Boy, can you make folks feel what you feel inside?
Cause if you're big star bound let me warn ya, its a long, hard ride"

Sandy King

sanking · Sep 14, 2010

holmburgers said:
Thanks Sandy, 'tis a shame that so few are doing tri-color.

Mind if I PM you with some more specific questions? I don't want to hijack this thread just for my sake.

Sure, feel free to PM me with questions, or if they are general in nature to carbon you might want to ask them on my Yahoo forum. Several persons on that forum are interested in tri-color carbon and might be able to answer your questions better than I can.

Sandy

Photo Engineer · Sep 14, 2010

It is a good thing that you both do not know Florence Flask!

She was a very handy adjunct to Ehrlenmeyer Flask and others.

PE

holmburgers · Sep 14, 2010

sanking said:
Sure, feel free to PM me with questions, or if they are general in nature to carbon you might want to ask them on my Yahoo forum...

Hey thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that existed. I'll definitely head that-a-way!

lxdude · Sep 14, 2010

sanking said:
Ron,

Yes, I call it glop. When I responded earlier I just assumed that "gloop" was a spelling error. I am sure you have observed, as I have, that people in the UK don't know how to spell!! And their pronunciation is sometimes not good either.

Sandy

Oh now I see the source of confusion. In the UK it's spelled "gloup".

Mixing gloop for carbon transfer

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency