Mixing Diafine

wilf102 · Jun 23, 2010

Hi All,

I want to start developing my own B&W films and bought some Diafine. It is the 1 gallon (3.8ltr) version. The shop only had 2.5 ltr containers. What is the best way of dealing with the mixing with this quantity? Do I do half the powder and at a later stage use the other half? Do I mix in a larger container? If so what sort?

Any help on this appreciated.

I also forgot to buy anything for wiping the film. Is there anything convenient to use? Fingers?

And where do I get distilled water in UK? Is it really necessary to use it for the mix?

OpticsGuy · Jun 23, 2010

Well, I had the same issue with an Ilford powder developer. They warned NOT to use a partial package.
I presume this is because they want a repeated solution batch to batch; if the power is not completely
homogeneous; the chemical proportions may not be the same batch to batch

I mixed the entire package in the smaller container and then using that as the stock solution, added
proportionately more water to bring it up to the working concentration.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 23, 2010

Assuming you don't get any cross contamination between solution A and B, Diafine lasts practically forever in either closed powder packets (or cans), or in liquid form. I would suggest trying to find gallon containers, because partially open powder containers are not a good idea.

A couple of nice gallon size amber glass jars are inexpensive and can be found in more places than photo chemistry supply stores.

If you do decide to wipe your film before you hang it to dry, use a wetting agent such as Kodak PhotoFlo or Sprint End-of-Run.
Some may advice against this, but I use a used windshield wiper that I carefully wash before each use, and then I run it very carefully along the length of the both the base and the emulsion sides of the film, AFTER I dip the wiper in the same wetting agent the film was in. With Kodak, Fuji, and Ilford films this works great; I would be more careful with softer emulsions such as Efke.

wilf102 said:
Hi All,

I want to start developing my own B&W films and bought some Diafine. It is the 1 gallon (3.8ltr) version. The shop only had 2.5 ltr containers. What is the best way of dealing with the mixing with this quantity? Do I do half the powder and at a later stage use the other half? Do I mix in a larger container? If so what sort?

Any help on this appreciated.

I also forgot to buy anything for wiping the film. Is there anything convenient to use? Fingers?

And where do I get distilled water in UK? Is it really necessary to use it for the mix?

ntenny · Jun 23, 2010

You're not supposed to mix partial packages of powdered chemicals, because in general powdered mixtures won't be homogeneous. E.g., if you have a mixture of powders of two different grain sizes, the one with the smaller grains will tend to migrate to the bottom. (This is the same mechanism that makes the broken fragments of crisps cluster in the bottom of the bag.) Mix the whole thing in a larger container, then split the solution.

Distilled water probably isn't necessary, but I use it because it's cheap and readily available and my tap water is hard enough that I need a knife and fork to drink it. Reverse-osmosis-purified water, if that's more easily available to you, should be just fine for any reasonable photographic use, in my opinion and (limited) experience.

I don't know enough about UK municipal water supplies to make a sensible guess about whether tap water would be OK photographically. At a guess, if it tastes like water, it's probably usable; if it tastes like a chemical factory or an iron mine, maybe not.

-NT

Grif · Jun 23, 2010

??? History repeats its self??? Painfull groaner from an old (getting older ;-) biology student.

Nathan Tenny
San Diego, CA, USA

A foolish consistency recapitulates phylogeny.

Michael W · Jun 23, 2010

wilf102 said:
Hi All,
And where do I get distilled water in UK? Is it really necessary to use it for the mix?

You should be able to buy distilled water at a big supermarket. It is recommended for Diafine as you'll be re-using the mixture so often.

BetterSense · Jun 23, 2010

When I did it, I mixed the whole gallon up and I used 2 1-liter beer bottles for my everyday working solution and put the rest in other, glass bottles for storage. After a while, my working Solution B will start to get low from spills and so on so I top it off with solution from my storage (and add the same amount to solution A, whether it needs it or not). After a couple years I've just got to the point where all my "storage" solution is used up and I'm down to my 2 liters of working solution. Time to order more I guess.

edp · Jun 24, 2010

I wouldn't squeegee Efke at all.

(Or anything else for that matter, but especially not Efke because it's very soft when it 's wet).

fschifano · Jun 24, 2010

I like Diafine and use it fairly often. It is not the best general purpose developer out there, but it is one of the best developers you can use to push Tri-X up to 2 stops. For most film development tasks, D-76 or XTOL are my preferred developers.

The current batch I'm using is well over a year old (actually closer to two years old) and has been replenished according to the package directions. Still works fine. The manufacturer recommends the use of distilled water, and I don't dispute that recommendation. Where you'd find it in the UK, is beyond me. In the US, distilled water can be found in most larger supermarkets and drugstores.

Do not halve the powders. Mix it according to the package directions, and the two separate baths will last a long time. It is possible that the remaining powder will go bad once opened. Use any number of smaller bottles marked "A" and "B" to store the solutions. Keep 1 litre of each as your working solutions, and use the remainder as replenisher. I store mine in cast off 1L soda pop bottles. The working solutions will discolor and look terrible, but don't let that put you off. It will work fine.

There is absolutely no need to wipe your film down if you use a wetting agent like Photoflo, and indeed you risk scratching your film if you do. Get some Photoflo or any other wetting agent you might prefer. After the film is washed, run it through a working solution of the wetting agent of your choice and hang it up to dry. The wetting agent will insure that no water spots will form on your film all by itself.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 24, 2010

Re: wetting agents. The Sprint 'End of Run' wetting agent actually recommends the use of sponges. That's the kind I am using and always figured that the manufacturer of the Sprint chemistry knew what they were talking about. I decided to not use sponges, but a rubber windshield wiper instead. On Kodak and Fuji films I have never had a scratch.
But some people use Kodak Photoflo or similar wetting agents, and I don't know what those manufacturers recommend for drying the film. But I had problems with getting drying marks on my film with just hanging them up after I used PhotoFlo (in distilled water), and didn't get rid of them until I started wiping the film dry. Go figure.:confused:

fschifano · Jun 24, 2010

Maybe you made the solution too strong Thomas. Kodak's recommended 1+200 dilution ratio is just that, a recommendation. The hardness of your water supply will determine just how much Photoflo to use. My own rule of thumb is to use only as much Photoflo as it takes to prevent the water from beading up and NO MORE. I use filtered tap water, and with my water supply I can get away with a mixture as thin as 1+400. If I were to use distilled water, I suspect I could make it even thinner, but I've had no incentive to try. It works fine as is.

RobertV · Jun 24, 2010

Mixing Diafine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

I want to start developing my own B&W films and bought some Diafine. It is the 1 gallon (3.8ltr) version. The shop only had 2.5 ltr containers. What is the best way of dealing with the mixing with this quantity? Do I do half the powder and at a later stage use the other half? Do I mix in a larger container? If so what sort?

Any help on this appreciated.

I also forgot to buy anything for wiping the film. Is there anything convenient to use? Fingers?

And where do I get distilled water in UK? Is it really necessary to use it for the mix?

Use all powder at once.

But you can stock on some 1 ltr. bottles. Indeed prevent contamination from B to A.
Diafine made in destilled water will be ok for 1 1/2 year.

I also forgot to buy anything for wiping the film. Is there anything convenient to use? Fingers?

Better not touch a wet emulsion at all!
Use a wetting agent in the right dose. Too much will also cause a problem. I use Rollei SWA in 1+2000 but this is a very concentrated version of photo flo.

Some films are doing nice in Diafine, especially Tri-X 400. E.I. 1250. Diafine is a 2 bath speed enhance developer.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 24, 2010

I mixed the PhotoFlo according to Kodak's instructions. 1ml per 200ml water.

Thanks,

- Thomas

fschifano said:
Maybe you made the solution too strong Thomas. Kodak's recommended 1+200 dilution ratio is just that, a recommendation. The hardness of your water supply will determine just how much Photoflo to use. My own rule of thumb is to use only as much Photoflo as it takes to prevent the water from beading up and NO MORE. I use filtered tap water, and with my water supply I can get away with a mixture as thin as 1+400. If I were to use distilled water, I suspect I could make it even thinner, but I've had no incentive to try. It works fine as is.

BetterSense · Jun 24, 2010

FWIW, I always found 1+200 too strong with distilled water. I use 6 drops per 250mL, or about 25 drops per liter of water.

wilf102 · Jul 4, 2010

Thanks to all for the feedback. I have found 5 litre containers from Halfords, so I can mix the whole batch of Diafine at once.

Rick A · Jul 5, 2010

You could mix the chems directly in a one gallon jug. Just pour about one quarter of the water into another holder, add the powder and mix. When the chems are dissolved, add the balance of the water back into the jug and stir once more. I recommend LFN brand of wetting agent and never wipe the film with anything. A couple of gentle raps of the reel on the palm of the hand nocks most of the residual water from the film, then hang length-wise to dry.

TareqPhoto · Jul 5, 2010

My problem is not with mixing, because i have a 5 Litre glass container amazing, but my problem is how to store something of 1 gallon up to 5ltr.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 5, 2010

Glass marbles to fill up the bottle.

TareqPhoto said:
My problem is not with mixing, because i have a 5 Litre glass container amazing, but my problem is how to store something of 1 gallon up to 5ltr.

Rick A · Jul 5, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
My problem is not with mixing, because i have a 5 Litre glass container amazing, but my problem is how to store something of 1 gallon up to 5ltr.

Decant into several 1L bottles and cap tightly. As you use up a bottle, either squeeze the excess air out(plastic ) or add marbles to raise the level prior to capping.

TareqPhoto · Jul 5, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Glass marbles to fill up the bottle.

What is glass marbles?

TareqPhoto · Jul 5, 2010

ralnphot said:
Decant into several 1L bottles and cap tightly. As you use up a bottle, either squeeze the excess air out(plastic ) or add marbles to raise the level prior to capping.

This is what i do, but not sure if those 1L bottles can store the chemicals well enough for long time until i can finish one bottle by another, mostly XTOL is not a long shelf developer, so i can't be sure if i use one bottle for enough time then the other bottles will be fine.

Rick A · Jul 5, 2010

If no O2 in the bottle and the stopper is thight, then the developer should last many months. My D-76 lasts for over 6 months in small bottles(actually nearly a year).

Trask · Jul 5, 2010

I suggest trying Edwal LFN -- miles better than Photo-Flo. No wiping necessary.

fschifano · Jul 5, 2010

Trask said:
I suggest trying Edwal LFN -- miles better than Photo-Flo. No wiping necessary.

Really? I've used both. Same thing.

Jim Noel · Jul 5, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Assuming you don't get any cross contamination between solution A and B, Diafine lasts practically forever in either closed powder packets (or cans), or in liquid form. I would suggest trying to find gallon containers, because partially open powder containers are not a good idea.

A couple of nice gallon size amber glass jars are inexpensive and can be found in more places than photo chemistry supply stores.

If you do decide to wipe your film before you hang it to dry, use a wetting agent such as Kodak PhotoFlo or Sprint End-of-Run.
Some may advice against this, but I use a used windshield wiper that I carefully wash before each use, and then I run it very carefully along the length of the both the base and the emulsion sides of the film, AFTER I dip the wiper in the same wetting agent the film was in. With Kodak, Fuji, and Ilford films this works great; I would be more careful with softer emulsions such as Efke.

I have used a wiper from a flat windshield VW for over 20 years. Works great.
The brand of film does not matter as it is totally unnecessary to wipe the emulsion side of the film. Any droplets left there will dry into the emulsion completely and thus disappear.

Mixing Diafine

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency