Mitsubishi papers

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 9, 2006

Hi all,

yesterday I bought some paper I had never seen before. It's manufactured by Mitsubishi, is sold by National Camera Exchange as an alternative to Agfa RC papers.

I can't say for sure, but the initial impression is good. I used it to make some contact sheets, but while at it I decided to make a couple of test prints.
Since I was using a developer new to me as well (didn't want to splurge my fine stuff on contact sheets), it's hard to tell. Normally I use VersaPrint glycin developer from fine art photo supply. Yesterday I used standard Polymax from Kodak.
I think the paper displayed a fine range of tones, and responded well to all contrast filters. One problem you may encounter is to wash it. It is hard to get the paper to stay under water. It floats.
That may be the down side to the cheap price. I bought 50 sheets of 11x14 for about $38.

Next time I'm in the darkroom I'll be trying it with my standard developer, and some negatives that I have printed before, alongside some of the Agfa RC papers I still have left.

It's available in both matte and glossy surface.

A new alternative, it seems.

- Thom

Peter De Smidt · Jan 9, 2006

I've used Mitsubishi glossy paper as my proofing paper for years. For an RC paper, it nice. It's has a fairly cool tone in Zone VI developer.

ann · Jan 9, 2006

I have had several students use it; they liked it very much and their results certainly looked good.

The only issue was that it was prone to scratching easily; however , we use a large commerical washing unit which can get full and increase the possibilities of scratching.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 9, 2006

Ann,

now that I think about it, either using rubber gloves or rubber tongs would be recommendable with these papers. My usual plastic tongs scratched the corners (not a problem for me, I print about 9x13 or 10.5x10.5 on 11x14 paper, but still).

That is certainly worth mentioning.

- Thom

srs5694 · Jan 9, 2006

FWIW, I spotted this paper a while ago at Unique Photo:

http://www.uniquephoto.com/index.php?expand=18954

They seem to be out of stock of most sizes at the moment, though, and they've got a minimum order size of three boxes for at least one of the sizes they do have (8x10, 100 sheets). A Web search I did at the time turned up posts with comments similar to those above -- that it's a very lightweight paper with an emulsion that scratches easily, but at least some people like the results. I've not yet tried it myself.

glbeas · Jan 9, 2006

I've gone through a box or two myself. I notice with a fresh box it has very good contrast, a little higher that PolyC under the same filter, and good blacks. Worst thing I saw about it was the paper was not cut square. Not a problem for me.

dancqu · Jan 9, 2006

huggyviking said:
... rubber gloves ... rubber tongs ...plastic tongs

Never had any use for the such. Thin skinned and
sensitive the bunch that ventures now days into the
dark. When did they start teaching that way
of doing it? I never learned it that way. Dan

Photo Engineer · Jan 9, 2006

At one time, Mitsubishi worked closely with Konishiroku. They also supplied some Oriental and Unicolor products. Mitsubishi paper mills were one of the largest producers of photo papers in Japan.

PE

Shinnya · Jan 9, 2006

I used to use their FB papers when I was in Japan. It is called "Gekko," meaning moonlight. They had really nice semi-mat paper. I do not seem to be able to find FB here in the Sates though...

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Peter De Smidt · Jan 9, 2006

Shinnya said:
I used to use their FB papers when I was in Japan. It is called "Gekko," meaning moonlight. They had really nice semi-mat paper. I do not seem to be able to find FB here in the Sates though...

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

The RC paper is called "Gekko" as well. I buy mine from Badger Graphic Sales. You might email Jeff and ask if he can get the FB paper. I'd be interested in buying some as well.

Shinnya · Jan 9, 2006

Yes,

It is their brand name for photographic papers.

Fuji also make FB papers which I do not seem to be able to get. I was using more Kodak papers when I was in Japan, and now I want to try Japanese papers while I am in the States...

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Peter De Smidt said:
The RC paper is called "Gekko" as well.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 10, 2006

Dan,

I have no clue if you meant that as a joke or not, but you need to be more humble than that. I have severe allergies, as I'm sure others do. I cannot touch chemicals with my bare hands. Dish soap gives me a rash.
Nobody taught me to use protective gloves, to me it was common sense. I am a very tolerant person, and generally don't jump on things like this, but this really upset me.

- Thom

dancqu said:
Never had any use for the such. Thin skinned and
sensitive the bunch that ventures now days into the
dark. When did they start teaching that way
of doing it? I never learned it that way. Dan

srs5694 · Jan 10, 2006

Shinnya said:
Fuji also make FB papers which I do not seem to be able to get. I was using more Kodak papers when I was in Japan, and now I want to try Japanese papers while I am in the States...

You could look into Dead Link Removed which is a Japanese mail-order outfit that ships worldwide. They've got several Fuji papers, although prices are a bit high by US standards, and I'm sure shipping would exaggerate that difference.

srs5694 · Jan 10, 2006

huggyviking said:
I have severe allergies, as I'm sure others do. I cannot touch chemicals with my bare hands. Dish soap gives me a rash.

Ouch! With such bad allergies this might not help, but phenidone/vitamin C (PC) developers are supposedly less likely to cause rashes and whatnot than are the more common metol/hydroquinone (MQ) developers. Kodak's XTOL and Paterson's FX-50 are the only commercial film PC developers I'm aware of, while Agfa's (now A&O's, if they'll continue making it) Neutol Plus (but not others in the Neutol line) is the only commercial PC paper developer I know of. There are plenty of mix-it-yourself PC formulas, though, such as PC-Glycol, PC-TEA, DS-10, DS-12, and E-76 for film; and DS-14, DS-15, and E-72 for paper.

Photo Engineer · Jan 10, 2006

For those worried about allergies using photographic chemicals, remember that it is often the alkali and acid that do some people in. In fact, this can be why some people have such severe allergies to some soaps.

Glycols can increase the reaction to a solution due to the increase in absorption through the skin in the presence of an organic solvent.

Bottom line is that there is no shortcut to solving an allergy problem, and experimentation often causes it to get worse due to hypersensitization.

Be careful in the DR. No sense risking your health.

PE

jim appleyard · Jan 10, 2006

dancqu said:
Never had any use for the such. Thin skinned and
sensitive the bunch that ventures now days into the
dark. When did they start teaching that way
of doing it? I never learned it that way. Dan

I always taught my students to use tongs, gloves or whatever safety items they wish to use and many other teachers have been teaching it that way for a long, long time.

Whatever you do is your business, but just because you don't do it a certain way doesn't mean it isn't being done.

Gerald Koch · Jan 10, 2006

I have been using the Gekko RC papers, both glossy and matte, for several years and really like them. I am able to purchase them locally because there is a university nearby and they are popular with students because of the low price.

dancqu · Jan 12, 2006

huggyviking said:
Dan, I have no clue if you meant that as a joke or not,
but you need to be more humble than that. Thom

An approach which precludes ANY and ALL
any contact with the chemistry is an approach
which would have us ALL sitting in the "NO PEANUTS
OR PEANUT CONTAINING PRODUCTS BEYOND THIS
POINT" area of the Stadium."

I think that unfair to the vast majority who have
no problem with the usual quite innoxious chemicals
used in the darkroom. Why unnecessarily incumber,
perhaps for life, so many?

And a very important point; the instilling of fear
with a seemed need for protective gear. I've not seen
"Danger, Peanut Grinder" signs in any stores. You
have heard of the Kiss of Death incident? Dan

Ole · Jan 12, 2006

dancqu said:
I think that unfair to the vast majority who have
no problem with the usual quite innoxious chemicals
used in the darkroom. Why unnecessarily incumber,
perhaps for life, so many?

"The vast majority" haven't the faintest idea of which chemicals are "quite innocuous", which are merely noxious, and which are toxic.

Why "incumber" them with the opportunity to preserve their good health?

Why check the spelling of chemical labels and warnings?

Lee L · Jan 12, 2006

Allergic reactions sometimes occur only after repeated or prolonged contact with the allergen, so minimizing contact is a way of preventing future allergic reactions, and of minimizing the chances that you'll end up being forced out of darkroom work. I used to put my hands in the chemistry when printing, but I wear thin gloves now and find that I prefer it to having concerns about toxicity and transferring whatever chemistry my hands absorb to other materials or my mouth.

Wonder if Weston would have worn gloves if he'd been aware of potential pyro toxicity problems. I know all chemicals aren't that toxic, but IIRC no one suspected a problem when he was working either. My father died from Parkinson's, and it's not the way you'd prefer to go.

Protective measures are 'an ounce of prevention', and using them should be an informed choice.

The actual thread topic? I haven't tried Mitsubishi papers.

Lee

jim appleyard · Jan 12, 2006

dancqu said:
An approach which precludes ANY and ALL
any contact with the chemistry is an approach
which would have us ALL sitting in the "NO PEANUTS
OR PEANUT CONTAINING PRODUCTS BEYOND THIS
POINT" area of the Stadium."

I think that unfair to the vast majority who have
no problem with the usual quite innoxious chemicals
used in the darkroom. Why unnecessarily incumber,
perhaps for life, so many?

And a very important point; the instilling of fear
with a seemed need for protective gear. I've not seen
"Danger, Peanut Grinder" signs in any stores. You
have heard of the Kiss of Death incident? Dan

Dan, why do you care about this? Does the noise that your neighbors rubber tongs and gloves make keep you up at night?

Jim Noel · Jan 12, 2006

Mitsubushi paper

I'm glad to know it is available somewhere. I used to use the FB because of its brilliant whites, as well as good separation in the highlights.

dancqu · Jan 12, 2006

[QUOTES=Ole]
"The vast majority" haven't the faintest idea of which
chemicals are "quite innocuous", which are merely noxious,
and which are toxic."

You've been Homebrewing too many years. You've pyro
this and pyro that ingrained upon your mind. We're talking
Darkroom Film and Print Processing 101. D76 + stop + fix =
negatives and Dektol + stop + fix = prints. Over the past
seventy to eighty years millions upon millions of people
world wide have worked with those chemicals.

"Why check the spelling of chemical labels and warnings?"

I don't recall any "Do not let the skin come in contact
with the chemistry" type of warning. From what I read
though, a very few by inhalation are affected. Dan

Ole · Jan 13, 2006

Homebrewing is in a way safer, since I know exactly what goes into my chemicals. You never know what trace constituents below the MSDS threshold are in commercial products.

"Darkroom Film and Print Processing 101" should, in my opinion, include "Chemical Safety Awareness" as a prerequisite for a "pass".

dancqu said:
"Why check the spelling of chemical labels and warnings?"

That was a snide remark aimed at the spelling in your post, for which I apologise.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 13, 2006

You know what. You win. I don't care to argue with you, because you're clearly of an opinion that I cannot respect.
Go on with your developing methods, and I'll go on with mine. Life is too good to argue about crap like this.

dancqu said:
An approach which precludes ANY and ALL
any contact with the chemistry is an approach
which would have us ALL sitting in the "NO PEANUTS
OR PEANUT CONTAINING PRODUCTS BEYOND THIS
POINT" area of the Stadium."

I think that unfair to the vast majority who have
no problem with the usual quite innoxious chemicals
used in the darkroom. Why unnecessarily incumber,
perhaps for life, so many?

And a very important point; the instilling of fear
with a seemed need for protective gear. I've not seen
"Danger, Peanut Grinder" signs in any stores. You
have heard of the Kiss of Death incident? Dan

Mitsubishi papers

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