Mitsubishi Grace RA4 paper... manufactured by Fujifilm?

ilikecameras1010 · Jun 5, 2021

I run a small lab operating an Agfa wet minilab. I ordered a few rolls of Mitsubishi Grace paper in 4" glossy and luster just to see what it looked like. I was surprised to find that it says manufactured in the USA and comes in identical packaging (same light-tight bags, same plastic spool inserts) to Fuji Crystal Archive rolls.

The unexposed paper is the same shade of blue as Crystal Archive and as far as I can tell it's an identical product except for the branding (it has a gold Mitsubishi back printed logo instead of the gray Fujicolor logo)

Can anyone confirm if this is the case and if so how long has it been ongoing?

foc · Jun 5, 2021

I would imagine that there are not a lot of manufacturers of colour RA4 paper, AFAIK it is just Fuji and Kodak so I assume it is toll manufacturing/private branding by Fuji.
How did the price compare to Fuji stock?
BTW what Agfa wet lab are you operating?

Paul Howell · Jun 5, 2021

At one time I think Mitsubishi had a small coating plant somewhere in the U.S, they coated film, paper, color and black and white, including house brands. I used their black and white RC VC paper when it was available. I think they coat their jet ink papers, but a good question, my money would on using rebranded Fuji.

Algo después · Jun 5, 2021

foc said:
I would imagine that there are not a lot of manufacturers of colour RA4 paper, AFAIK it is just Fuji and Kodak so I assume it is toll manufacturing/private branding by Fuji.

Tura also continues to manufacture RA4 paper. It has a green base

AgX · Jun 5, 2021

Algo después said:
Tura also continues to manufacture RA4 paper. It has a green base

Tura as manufacturer has been dissolved many years ago

And when they still were active they were converting and rebranding Agfa RA-4 paper.

Algo después · Jun 5, 2021

Thanks for the precision. It is known that Tura has been bought by PhotoStar some years ago; actually what I should have said is that ra4 paper signed as Tura is still available. Even according to its website it seems to continue to be distributed. By the way, I recently bought ra4 chemistry from them in my country (Ecuador). It says Made in Belgium. I can't find the production date either, but the label says: Tura.

http://photostar-germany.de/products/

ilikecameras1010 · Jun 5, 2021

I'm running an Agfa d-lab.1 with built-in film processor and scanner; in my opinion the finest minilab ever built! The Mitsubishi paper is about the same price as the Fuji from Miami Digital, a few dollars more actually at about $44 for a 4"x610ft roll.

ilikecameras1010 · Jun 5, 2021

Algo después said:
Thanks for the precision. It is known that Tura has been bought by PhotoStar some years ago; actually what I should have said is that ra4 paper signed as Tura is still available. Even according to its website it seems to continue to be distributed. By the way, I recently bought ra4 chemistry from them in my country (Ecuador). It says Made in Belgium. I can't find the production date either, but the label says: Tura.

http://photostar-germany.de/products/

Very interesting! These are the same type of bottles that some of Fuji's minilab chemicals come in, and they are also produced in Belgium

AgX · Jun 5, 2021

Algo después said:
By the way, I recently bought ra4 chemistry from them in my country (Ecuador). It says Made in Belgium. I can't find the production date either, but the label says: Tura.

Should be from Fuji-Hunt. Or from Agfa, A SP 95, but then it would be at least 7 years old.

MattKing · Jun 5, 2021

I wonder if it could be contract manufactured at the Carestream plant in Colorado, just like the Kodak brand paper.

koraks · Jun 6, 2021

ilikecameras1010 said:
Can anyone confirm if this is the case and if so how long has it been ongoing?

I wouldn't know for sure, but you know, if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it's probably....

I did get two boxes of cut sheet 8x10" Mitsubishi paper together with another forum member a year and a half ago or so. It was fogged dramatically. The seller insisted it should be fine and many customers used it with great success. To me it looked like it had expired over a decade go.

foc · Jun 6, 2021

Algo después said:
http://photostar-germany.de/products/

Yes those bottles look very like Fuji chemical bottles.
The fact the rolls of paper have all the similar packing, core inserts, etc and the paper has same shade of blue, strongly suggests it could be Fuji.

foc · Jun 6, 2021

ilikecameras1010 said:
I'm running an Agfa d-lab.1 with built-in film processor and scanner; in my opinion the finest minilab ever built! The Mitsubishi paper is about the same price as the Fuji from Miami Digital, a few dollars more actually at about $44 for a 4"x610ft roll.

They are a very good machine.
Have you found an increase in film processing?
Do you have a website?

pentaxuser · Jun 6, 2021

From what Henning Serger said, assuming I recall correctly, there is only Fuji and Kodak who are capable of producing RA4 paper so unless it is very old stock it has to emanate from one of the other, doesn't it?

What is the evidence that Mitsubishi has contracted either Kodak or Fuji to produce Mitsubishi brand paper and if it has, could this paper have different specs from either Fuji or Kodak RA4 or is it actually Fuji or Kodak paper which is identical in every way to whichever of the two companies produce it?

If it is identical then presumably either Fuji or Kodak has agreed that its paper can be rebranded?

Thanks

pentaxuser

MattKing · Jun 6, 2021

Any Kodak branded paper was formerly being made for Kodak Alaris by Carestream in Colorado, or possibly in another plant in Brazil (I think). I don't know whether Sino Promise Holdings (who now hold the brand) has access to any manufacturing capacity in China or otherwise.

Paul Howell · Jun 6, 2021

koraks said:
I wouldn't know for sure, but you know, if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it's probably....

I did get two boxes of cut sheet 8x10" Mitsubishi paper together with another forum member a year and a half ago or so. It was fogged dramatically. The seller insisted it should be fine and many customers used it with great success. To me it looked like it had expired over a decade go.

As I recall some of Mitsubishi's boxed paper was orphaned Konica.

foc · Jun 6, 2021

Paul Howell said:
As I recall some of Mitsubishi's boxed paper was orphaned Konica.

My understanding is that Konica has stopped making paper a long time ago.

Paul Howell · Jun 6, 2021

2009 or so, orphaned rolls were bought and repackaged, don't know how many years it would have taken to become fogged.

AgX · Jun 7, 2021

What do you mean by "orphaned" rolls?

Paul Howell · Jun 7, 2021

When Konica stopped production they sold off rolls of paper and film that were then cut and repackaged. Here in the U.S Photowarehouse spooled Konica 35mm film and boxed R4 paper. Over the years folks have claimed that Mitsubishi did the same. For a time I worked for a lab here in Phoenix that had both a Frontier and old analog mini lab that we used if we got really busy, well those days were over, at one point I bought some Mitsubishi 100 and 200 film at the local dollar store. I ran a strip through the analog machine, it was coded Konica. Nice film, good color and grain. I bought 20 rolls of 24 for a dollar a roll, and shoot with them for 3 or 4 years. From what I understand because of the glut of inventory from around 2001 to 2010 Kodak, Ilford and Fuji sold rolls to Freestyle and Photowearhouse who sold them as house brands.

ilikecameras1010 · Nov 10, 2021

foc said:
They are a very good machine.
Have you found an increase in film processing?
Do you have a website?

A few months late but thanks for the interest! We started the lab in summer 2020 and demand is almost more than we can keep up with. Our website is https://www.exposuretherapy.nyc/ and we are still in love with our AGFA minilab-- so much that we recently purchased a scanner from a d.Lab-2 converted to standalone operation (with the wet section removed) to scan medium-format. German engineering can't be matched-- quality rivals and occasionally exceeds what you can get from Noritsu or Frontier and parts and service remain available.

foc · Nov 11, 2021

ilikecameras1010 said:
A few months late but thanks for the interest! We started the lab in summer 2020 and demand is almost more than we can keep up with. Our website is https://www.exposuretherapy.nyc/ and we are still in love with our AGFA minilab-- so much that we recently purchased a scanner from a d.Lab-2 converted to standalone operation (with the wet section removed) to scan medium-format. German engineering can't be matched-- quality rivals and occasionally exceeds what you can get from Noritsu or Frontier and parts and service remain available.

Thanks for the update and better late than never.
Great to hear of your accomplishments and expansion and the best of continued success.
It is always nice to hear a good film story.

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