Misloaded?

The last couple days, I've been carrying my Century with 101 Ektar and a 6x7 film back from my RB67 (Pro version roll back, no double exposure interlock or dark slide safety latch, hence around fifty years old) mounted. I finished a roll on the way home yesterday, and at a stop, reloaded the film back. When I unloaded, I found that one of the pin rollers in the shell (hold the film against the pressure plate, out of contact with the frame mask to prevent scratching) was loose and its mount bent, but I was able to reseat it and rebend the bracket to restore function. When I closed it up and tried to advance to "1", however, the counter wheel didn't move and the film just kept rolling. I stopped after what seemed like several strokes too many, and because it had felt like the film was advancing, did not open the back until I got home to my darkroom.

In the dark, I opened things up and found most of the film in a "fat roll" on the takeup side. I rewound it, tightly, to the supply spool, then with the lights on looked everything over -- and when it all looked fine, I reloaded, and the film counter operated as expected.

The counter in this RB67 back is the length counter type, driven by the first turn-around roller after the film leaves the supply spool. I'm certain the film was loaded correctly, black side out, and it's impossible to bypass the turn-around roller in loading, so I don't understand what could have caused the counter not to start. The only thing I can come up with was that the shell was harder than usual to close when I first loaded this roll, enough so that I reopened (before advancing) and rechecked everything before closing again.

I believe that if the shell wasn't fully closed, the counter reset tab could be up, which might prevent the counter from advancing -- that's the only thing I can think of that could have caused this. If that was the case, the roll of XP2 Super Ioaded might have some light leaks on it (sunny day, working in my car). I guess I'll know when I process this roll...

I know two things: I wouldn’t be confessing like this, and I’d throw out the film and try again. But that’s just me. Hope everything works out for you no matter what you choose to do.

I think there's value in putting less common issues like this out where folks who are new to medium format or to photography in general, and may not have a technician's grasp of how the mechanical bits work, can see what might cause something like this and what to watch out for. I've got no reputation to try to protect, I'm just a guy who's finally starting to get the cameras I've wanted for most of my life and enjoying using them.

It would have helped if you had photographed the roller out of place so that it would be clear what had happened.

Sirius, it's not clear to me what happened. I don't believe the roller had anything to do with the difficulty closing the shell or the counter failing to start -- I had it back in correct position before I tried to close the back -- and at the time, sitting in the driver's seat of my car, I was more concerned about not losing loose parts and not breaking the bent bracket. Best I can figure, the roller got dragged out of place by the tail of the previous film, a roll of NHG 800 that had an unusual (to me) retaining tab in the spool slot that made it tricky to get the next roll's leader in. That NHG 800 also had the tail tab tuck back to itself some way, and I think it caught on the roller as I wound through.

Fuji spools have a tab in the slot that is supposed to make it easier to load your next roll of Fuji film, which has a hole cut in the leader for that piece to catch on. I’ve never found it that useful, but then again, I don’t shoot that much Fuji, so the Fuji roll is usually followed by a Kodak, Foma, or Ilford roll.

Well, with NHG 400 the last of its line and now gone, I won't be shooting much Fuji in 120 -- I don't think they have a C-41 in that size now, at least available in the USA. Velvia/Provia are expensive enough I won't shoot them regularly, which probably means I won't shoot them at all because of needing to use kits (with limited after-mixing storage life) to process them. And Acros II is out of my price range unless I very specifically need its reciprocity characteristics (and TMX costs less and does the same job, very nearly). For day to day black and white, I shoot .EDU Ultra, which I can get in 35 mm (rolled and bulk), 120, and 4x5.

Where I do shoot Fuji is 35 mm color -- Superia Xtra 400 is very nice stuff, and at a good price. Irrelevant to this issue with my 6x7 roll film holder, though.

Donald Qualls said:

I think there's value in putting less common issues like this out where folks who are new to medium format or to photography in general, and may not have a technician's grasp of how the mechanical bits work, can see what might cause something like this and what to watch out for. I've got no reputation to try to protect, I'm just a guy who's finally starting to get the cameras I've wanted for most of my life and enjoying using them.

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Agreed.

ALL issues should be shared because they are valuable lessons to be aware of, and if your photographic reputation is held so dear, at least try no to put a negative vibe on those wh
do what they see as positive for the camera community

No Shunning is the best way to live and let live, IMO.

Eli

Following up on this, when I finished the roll of XP2 Super I was loading when this occurred, I looked closely at the roll film holder and found that if closed less than carefully, as I suspected, the edge of the shell doesn't reliably depress the counter reset tab -- which must be depressed for the counter to operate. I don't see any sign of bent parts, so I'm not sure at this point how this ever worked (but this is the first time since I got the RB67 kit, a year and a half and half a dozen or more rolls through this one back, that it has malfunctioned). I think I can fix it with a little careful bending of the edge of the shell to increase the engagement with the reset tab. I'd prefer to adjust the tab itself, but that requires disassembling the counter mechanism.

Donald Qualls said:

Following up on this, when I finished the roll of XP2 Super I was loading when this occurred, I looked closely at the roll film holder and found that if closed less than carefully, as I suspected, the edge of the shell doesn't reliably depress the counter reset tab -- which must be depressed for the counter to operate. I don't see any sign of bent parts, so I'm not sure at this point how this ever worked (but this is the first time since I got the RB67 kit, a year and a half and half a dozen or more rolls through this one back, that it has malfunctioned). I think I can fix it with a little careful bending of the edge of the shell to increase the engagement with the reset tab. I'd prefer to adjust the tab itself, but that requires disassembling the counter mechanism.

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A few quick raps of a hammer will teach it to behave.

abruzzi said:

Fuji spools have a tab in the slot that is supposed to make it easier to load your next roll of Fuji film, which has a hole cut in the leader for that piece to catch on. I’ve never found it that useful, but then again, I don’t shoot that much Fuji, so the Fuji roll is usually followed by a Kodak, Foma, or Ilford roll.

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I always felt that was rather thoughtful of Fuji to do that. But I'm nearly out of 400H so I won't be seeing it in the future.

Sirius Glass said:

A few quick raps of a hammer will teach it to behave.

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You don't need to tell me -- I used to claim I could fix anything with a hammer; I don't go quite that far now, but I regularly amaze other technicians where I work by fixing relatively delicate stuff, pretty precisely, with a 32 ounce ball peen. "It's all a matter of knowing where to hit it, and how hard."

That said, my darkroom doesn't have anything I can reasonably use for an anvil, and I'd want to have the reset tab out of the back to adjust it this way. Much more likely I'll either bend the edge of the shell cover a millimeter or two so it engages more reliably, or 3D print and glue on a little "shoe" to keep the shell from slipping under the tab.

Sirius Glass said:

A few quick raps of a hammer will teach it to behave.

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Donald Qualls said:

You don't need to tell me -- I used to claim I could fix anything with a hammer; I don't go quite that far now, but I regularly amaze other technicians where I work by fixing relatively delicate stuff, pretty precisely, with a 32 ounce ball peen. "It's all a matter of knowing where to hit it, and how hard."

That said, my darkroom doesn't have anything I can reasonably use for an anvil, and I'd want to have the reset tab out of the back to adjust it this way. Much more likely I'll either bend the edge of the shell cover a millimeter or two so it engages more reliably, or 3D print and glue on a little "shoe" to keep the shell from slipping under the tab.

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The tool kit comprises of a hammer, duct tape, WD-40, 3 in One Oil and Super Glue.

I use a hammer and duct tape, not so much WD-40. Super Glue, yes.

drmoss_ca said:

I always felt that was rather thoughtful of Fuji to do that. But I'm nearly out of 400H so I won't be seeing it in the future.

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I have about 20 rolls of 400H and 25 rolls of original Acros. Plus a dozen Provia and a few Velvia 50. I go through them slowly though because I’m mostly shooting cheap B&W (really like Foma 100, my go-to film in all formats, up to 8x10.). I wish I could get the 160 color film easily. 400 is a little too sensitive for me. I really like Fuji’s films, but they seem to be slowly disappearing.