Mirko- Any Chances of Efke 25 Returning- As Adox CHS II 25?

[braxus]

Since film is starting to bounce back and have a bit of a resurgence, and now that Adox with Mirko finally have most of their pieces in place to produce their own film, is their any chance we might see Efke 25 return, possibly named Adox CHS II 25?

I loved this film and have a small stash of it, but not in all formats I use. Plus one day it will run out. It seemed to me the 25 speed film was the sweet spot in the Efke lineup. Anyone else miss this film (minus the problems it had in manufacture)?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've got about 25, 8x10 sheets left. I would love to see it reincarnated.

 

[Alan9940]

I've got about 40 rolls of 35mm in the freezer from the last production run. Great film; especially in Spur Acurol-N.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's worth finding the earlier thread where Mirko talked about why EFLE 25 or rather a new Adox version wouldn't return. Some of the reasons were similar to the discontinuation of Agfa APX25, a key chemical component was no longer available and the costs of re-formulating the emulsion was too high compared to the relatively low sales of the film.

EFKE 25 was named after its Tungsten ISO, it had a daylight ISO of 50, it's original Adox and later EFKE name was Kb14/R14/PL14 the Tungsten DIN speed. Mirko's argument was that they could produce a film with similar characteristics and a slightly faster speed.

Like others I have maybe 100 sheets of EFKE 25 10x8 and some 5x4 and Quarter plate.

Ian

 

[halfaman]

Also, I don't think that Adox has the production means to do many different films in a cost effective way. It is a single and very small line compared to industry standards.

My favourite was Efke 50, by the way.

 

[Team ADOX]

Since film is starting to bounce back and have a bit of a resurgence, and now that Adox with Mirko finally have most of their pieces in place to produce their own film, is their any chance we might see Efke 25 return, possibly named Adox CHS II 25?

No.
Efke 25 / ADOX CHS 25 were made at the Fotokemika factory. This factory is gone, and the machinery was not saved. The coating process used there was very different to modern, highest-quality standards coating technology.
The main purpose of an ISO 25/15° speed film is to get best detail rendition - highest resolution, excellent sharpness, finest grain - in comparison to medium speed films. To make very big prints even from 35mm for example.
Therefore our intention as a manufacturer is to get the best detail rendition with such slow films, so that they fulfill their main purpose in the best way:
Our latest ADOX HR-50 is a big step in that way, because it has much better resolution, better sharpness and significantly finer grain compared to former CHS 25. And all that at even a bit higher sensitivity. You can use HR-50 in a speed range from ISO 20/14° to 50/18° as a negative film with very good tonality depending on the used developer.
Furthermore it delivers outstanding results as a reversal film at ISO 50/18°, and almost the same quality as a reversal film pulled one stop and pushed one stop.
It has also much better production quality and QC.
And can be even used as an infrared film with an infrared filter. Therefore it is also a much more versatile film compared to CHS 25.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Efke 25 was a thin emulsion low iodide film which had high sharpness due to edge effects when developed in Beutler developer or similar. Is Adox HR-50 similar?

 

[Ian Grant]

Efke 25 was a thin emulsion low iodide film which had high sharpness due to edge effects when developed in Beutler developer or similar. Is Adox HR-50 similar?

I think an additional question is about the difference in tonality. One thing I liked about EFKE 25 was shooting it at 50 EI along with Tmax100 at 50EI or Agfa APX100 at 100EI all developed for the same times in Rodinal, and although there were slight differences in spectral sensitivity I alwys got good long toanla range from the films..

It's a pity that there's not a name for who's posting for Team ADOX but it's wrong to compare EFKE 25 with say the old AP25 & APX25 films which had a Daylight ISO of 25/15º all the data-sheets I've had over the years have given a Daylight ASA?ISO speed twice that of the Tungsten ISO used in the name,

I've been using EFKE 25 since the early 1970's when the 35mm version was Kb14, EFKE had a few changes of distributor here in the UK originally as Adox (made in Germany) it and the cameras were distributed by Luminos, when I started using it production had not long been shifted to EFKE who had bought the coating lines etc and licences rights from DuPont. It would disappear for a while and eventually only being sold in the UK as Jessops own brand 35mm & 120 and the names reflected the Daylight ISO, so Jessops R100 was in fact EFKE 50.

By the time Jessops and later Fotoimpex began selling the EFKE emulsions the hardening had been improved not to the levels of other manufacturers but still significantly compared to early EFKE production. When I first used Kb14 the emulsion was so soft, it was better to use a hardening stop bath, later 1977 onwards I added hardener to the developer, a few drops of Formaldehyde just before use.

The discussion of Adox HR-50 and Adox 25 reminds me of testing Micro films in 1972/3 while at University, and later Kb14 and the Fantasy Holy Grail of getting Large Format quality from a 35mm camera. The reality was with KB14 and care you could get the same quality as a 100 ISO emulsion in a 120 camera, but then they could use R14, and an LF user could shoot Pl14.

Ian

 

[Team ADOX]

Efke 25 was a thin emulsion low iodide film which had high sharpness due to edge effects when developed in Beutler developer or similar. Is Adox HR-50 similar?

You can add a little bit of sharpness with developers which offer the "Kanten-Effekt" / edge-effect like Rodinal, FX-39 II, Neofin, Beutler, Acurol in combination with ADOX HR-50. But HR-50 is also sharper in standard developers compared to former CHS 25. The main reason why HR-50 surpasses the old Efke 25 / CHS 25 emulsion in resolution, sharpness and grain is the more modern, advanced emulsion technology and the improved AHU. The quality of the AHU makes a really significant difference in terms of sharpness and resolution. We've made lots of tests in this area. And most photographers don't know how important this factor is.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[braxus]

I find it funny Adox (if indeed it is Mirko responding) recommends HR50, yet I look on Freestyle and its only in 35mm. Also its a super panchromatic film with extended red sensitivity (from the info I read anyway), which is the opposite to Efke's orthopan sensitivity. So it seems the closest film to Efke now is CHS II 100. Yet the grain on that is not as fine. Looks like the only thing to do is buy old stock whenever sold.

I looked at some photo scans online of both HR-50 and CHS II 100. The CHS film has more mid tones and separation of tones then HR-50. HR-50 seems more on the extreme ends of tones, either close to white or close to black. Not a lot in the middle. So I fail to see how HR-50 would be a better substitute for Efke 25. They look totally different, other then both being higher contrast.

 

[Team ADOX]

Dear Braxus,
concerning Team ADOX please have a look here, post No. 4:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...0-test-results-in-reversal-processing.166082/

Also its a super panchromatic film with extended red sensitivity (from the info I read anyway), which is the opposite to Efke's orthopan sensitivity. So it seems the closest film to Efke now is CHS II 100. Yet the grain on that is not as fine.

Yes, HR-50 has extended red sensivity. Red is recorded a bit lighter compared to former CHS 25. But in which scenery would that make an important difference? In a very small number.
As explained above:
The main purpose of a film in the ISO 25/15° class is to offer very high resolution, excellent sharpness and finest grain. Optimal detail rendition for very big enlargements. And that is exactly what ADOX HR-50 can deliver. In a much better way than former CHS 25.

I looked at some photo scans online of both HR-50 and CHS II 100. The CHS film has more mid tones and separation of tones then HR-50. HR-50 seems more on the extreme ends of tones, either close to white or close to black. Not a lot in the middle. So I fail to see how HR-50 would be a better substitute for Efke 25. They look totally different, other then both being higher contrast.

We don't know which scans you have seen. But please consider this:
1. It is very problematic to judge films by viewing online scans. Because you mostly don't know how the film was developed, and whether the development procedure was correct. We have seen so much over- and underdeveloped film pictures online which made the used film look extremely bad that we would never judge a film based on online published pictures. And you also mostly don't know whether the scans were properly made, and whether (or which) post processing was done. And unfortunately today lots of film scans are done with the by far lowest quality method: flat bed scans.
2. Mid tone separation: Excellent mid tone separation is one of the advantages of HR-50 compared to CHS 25. HR-50 has a more S-shaped characteristic curve whereas CHS 25 had in most developers a more upswept curve.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.