Minox

Ron Valdes · Oct 1, 2016

I'm using a Minox Daylight Developing Tank HC-110. B mixture 1:31 Delta 100 film @ 68f. Any suggestions on time; agitation or any other suggestions. Just getting my feet wet using Minox equipment. . I also have recently obtained a Minox Enlarger III. Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks, Ron

DWThomas · Oct 1, 2016

I have not done enough Minox work in recent history to be too confident about offering specific advice, but some generic comments:

With small fiddly tanks I tend to prefer more dilution to get the developing time longer so some minor variations in handling time only represent a very small percentage of the total development time.

The film supplied in Minox cartridges (via Blue Moon these days) is slit down from larger standard film, so the time/temperature data and instructions for 135 or 120 film of whatever brand/type in a small tank should be at least a good starting point.

The "official" agitation is to slide the thermometer up and down in the center spool opening of the tank. To me that's just intuitively not as confidence inspiring as inverting a more conventional tank a few times every so often, but it apparently works.

I believe there are several folks here on APUG who use their Minox gear much more regularly, so we can hope one of them chimes in with a broader knowledge base.

Cool that you got a real Minox enlarger. I cobbled together a scary looking home made unit a few decades back, but I no longer have the supporting stand for it and haven't quite decided where to head next. I'm torn as to whether I want to use the thing or not, as most of my last few year's film work has been medium format, so I'm trying to avoid investing too much in sub-miniature stuff. There were enlarging adapters sometimes called "ENLA" units that replace the lens on a standard enlarger with a film holder, short focal length lens, and maybe a supplemental condenser. They were made for a number of sub-miniature formats, but are rare as hen's teeth and priced accordingly!

Bill Burk · Oct 1, 2016

On one of your rolls of film... Take two shots two shutter speed settings apart, one at the normal exposure and one overexposed two settings...

After you get the film developed...

Make a test strip from the normally-exposed shot using the f/stop method. After your test strip has dried, pick one of the times (the time for the correct print exposure) and double it. Switch to the denser of the two test shots and print at that doubled time only.

Compare the result: If the second print is perfect, then your processing is perfect. If the second print is lighter than you wanted, that means the negatives were developed too much. If the second print is darker than you wanted, that means the negatives weren't developed long enough.

Ron Valdes · Oct 1, 2016

DW & Bill thanks for your input. Ron

guangong · Oct 2, 2016

Ron, the Minox developing tank is a concept that is almost as ingenious as the 8x11 cameras. Externally, nothing about the tanks appears exceptional but within the Bakelite core are inner channels in which developer circulates when the thermometer (I use eyedroppers that are an exact fit) is pumped up and down. I also use a nikor steel reel and invert. Stay away from the plastic reels...they are a pita to load successfully. I just use the times suggested by the film maker. I have tried a variety of developers in the past but generally just use good old Rodinol. You need the Minox enlarger...that small strip of film is difficult to work with using a 35mm enlarger, even if you have a Minox neg carrier. Have fun!

Ron Valdes · Oct 2, 2016

Thanks for your input.

MartinP · Oct 3, 2016

I have a Minox tank which is agitated using a very long 8mm nylon bolt in the 'pump-action' thingy, as the tank was a junk-shop find with no thermometer.

If you end up with a choice of a short time and a longer one (ie. different dilutions) I'd suggest to choose the longer one, as this tank is not very quick to fill or drain.

Ron Valdes · Oct 3, 2016

Thank you for the useful info. Ron

guangong · Oct 4, 2016

Martin's suggestion about developing longer developing times is good advice. Minox tank development is not as messy or elaborate as inversion or Jobo. In the old days one Minox promotion was a Minox development kit including chemicals and tank permitting convenient film development in hotel room for tourist (or spy) on the run. With long development time one can sit idly by while pumping thermometer and watch tv or whatever.

bsdunek · Oct 4, 2016

In my experience, using the Minox tank, one should use developers at their minimum recommended dilution. The tank holds so little that, I believe, the developer can become exhausted. I have been using Microphen full strength with Delta 100 & 400. Diluted, I have experienced low density negatives.
Most of the time I use stainless steel reels in a regular Nikor tank. With that, I will use diluted developer, but maybe 6 or 8 ounces, and get good density.
My Dad was a big Minox fan, and always used full strength Microdol-X in the Minox tank. His negatives are wonderful.

DWThomas · Oct 4, 2016

Interesting point worth keeping in mind. I was thinking in terms of HC110 -- my usual soup -- which at 1+31 can get into pretty short times. In a quick sloppy measurement, it looks to me that a 36 exposure Minox roll is on the order of 10 square inches, meaning it's about one eighth of the area of the standard 80 sq in roll, so not a whole lot of active ingredient is necessary, Might be interesting to experiment sometime.

Ron Valdes · Oct 4, 2016

guangong said:
Martin's suggestion about developing longer developing times is good advice. Minox tank development is not as messy or elaborate as inversion or Jobo. In the old days one Minox promotion was a Minox development kit including chemicals and tank permitting convenient film development in hotel room for tourist (or spy) on the run. With long development time one can sit idly by while pumping thermometer and watch tv or whatever.

Wouldn't it be nice if they still made the chemicals in little packets and make it more convenient rather than have to make up a large batch of chemicals.

Ron789 · Oct 4, 2016

Ron Valdes said:
Just getting my feet wet using Minox equipment.
Thanks, Ron

If your feet are getting wet there must be some leak. Check the sealings to find out where it's coming from. ;-)

MartinP · Oct 5, 2016

Ron Valdes said:
Wouldn't it be nice if they still made the chemicals in little packets and make it more convenient rather than have to make up a large batch of chemicals.

Using a liquid concentrate one need only mix as much as is needed. The tricky bit is the volume of the 36-exp Minox tank is only about 55ml, so precision and accuracy when measuring the concentrate becomes tricky for high dilutions of HC110 or Rodinal. Probably a syringe is the best way.

flavio81 · Oct 5, 2016

Ron Valdes said:
I'm using a Minox Daylight Developing Tank HC-110. B mixture 1:31 Delta 100 film @ 68f. Any suggestions on time; agitation or any other suggestions. Just getting my feet wet using Minox equipment. . I also have recently obtained a Minox Enlarger III. Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks, Ron

Note that i'm not a Minox user so i'll say this as an armchair specialist.

I guess you want to minimize grain. HC-110 is not the finest grained developer. You ought to try something like Ilford Perceptol, or mix yourself your own "fine grain" developer such as D23 (only two ingredients: Metol and Sodium Sulfite!). Perhaps even straight (pure) D76 gives finer grain.
HC-110 was designed by Kodak for the convenience of having a liquid concentrate that lasts long.

Supposedly more frequent agitation contributes to higher resolution (i have not tested this but i think this was said by "Photo Engineer", a forumer that I admire, and one who really, really knows these topics).

Acros 100 is finer grained than Delta 100, if you want to try it. TMax 100 is higher resolving than Delta 100. (But I love Delta 100, it gives great results).

If you do B/W slides (B/W reversal process), the grain will appear smaller and more uniform, due to the process. The Foma Reversal kit lets you do B/W slides with many B/W films like Ilford FP4, Fomapan R100 and others. And you can enlarge the slides by doing B/W reversal paper process. An inverted world. Now, i say this as an armchair specialist since i've never seen prints made by reversal B/W paper process.

Now, ignore all this advice if you love grain!

flavio81 · Oct 5, 2016

Ron Valdes said:
Wouldn't it be nice if they still made the chemicals in little packets and make it more convenient rather than have to make up a large batch of chemicals.

You can measure the chemicals yourself with a scale and re-package in smaller bags.

Or you can use liquid chemicals and dilute as needed. For example I have Tetenal Ultrafin, which i dissolve before using (1:10, 1:20, 1:30).

If you can source yourself sodium sulfite, metol OR phenidone and hydroquinone OR ascorbic acid(vitamin C), and perhaps potassium bromide, then you can make MANY developers yourself.

DWThomas · Oct 5, 2016

flavio81 said:
Note that i'm not a Minox user so i'll say this as an armchair specialist.
[ . . . ]
Acros 100 is finer grained than Delta 100, if you want to try it. TMax 100 is higher resolving than Delta 100. (But I love Delta 100, it gives great results).

If you do B/W slides (B/W reversal process), the grain will appear smaller and more uniform, due to the process. The Foma Reversal kit lets you do B/W slides with many B/W films like Ilford FP4, Fomapan R100 and others. And you can enlarge the slides by doing B/W reversal paper process. An inverted world. Now, i say this as an armchair specialist since i've never seen prints made by reversal B/W paper process.
[ . . . ]

One problem here is we are talking Minox and there are extremely few films available ready to use. If one wants to slit and load their own, yes, more options are open (but whew -- fiddly stuff!) Currently Blue Moon offers Delta 100 and 400, Portra 400 and Ektar 100 (at $20 per roll).

MartinP · Oct 5, 2016

The Minox ISO100 film available from Japan with the label Sharan is Acros100, so that is another option. I bought half a dozen rolls to get the new cassettes, but the film worked fine too of course.

Secondary question . . . will I make my fortune by producing and selling a precise film-stripper that doesn't cost hundreds of euros/dollars/pounds? Is such a thing needed by the world?

DWThomas · Oct 5, 2016

MartinP said:
The Minox ISO100 film available from Japan with the label Sharan is Acros100, so that is another option. I bought half a dozen rolls to get the new cassettes, but the film worked fine too of course.

Secondary question . . . will I make my fortune by producing and selling a precise film-stripper that doesn't cost hundreds of euros/dollars/pounds? Is such a thing needed by the world?

I'll keep that Sharan stuff in mind. As to a slitter, don't do it on my account! I gave up on my 'B' back in the late 1960s and it sat in a closet until a couple of years ago. Some discussions on APUG inspired me to give it another try, but as I mentioned somewhere in one of these threads, I got some scratching -- albeit on the non-emulsion side -- from something. And I currently lack a means to enlarge those tiny negatives, so I'm in a bit of a quandary about using it or putting it back in the closet. I have one more roll of Delta 100 in hand, but I'd like to go over the camera in an attempt to clean out any "stuff" before shooting again and am not sure when the time and ambition may align to do that!

There is or was a rather elegant slitter made, don't know if it's still available or not. I could probably work up my own with some plastic blocks and single edge razor blades, but ripping open a little package and popping out a nice already loaded cartridge has its attractions.

guangong · Oct 6, 2016

Marvelous slithers are made by a fellow in China. Very precise and do not use blades. I have the slitter once marketed by Minox. The flaw with this slitter is that blades can only be replaced when obtained from Minox aa a premounted unit. The blades are no longer available. The slitter from China comes in two varieties: one gives 2 strips for Minox, the other gives 1 fir Minox and 1 for Minolta 16. I am not at home right now but you can find details ar photo.net Minox group.

bsdunek · Oct 6, 2016

I use the Julian Tanase slitter. Uses standard double edge razor blades and I like it. The Jimmy Li one uses shearing rolls which are probably better, but I was too cheap to buy one.
https://minoxit.com/2014/01/14/film-slitters/
I use a piece of 1 X 2 wood with a pin and the end and notches to cut the slit film to length. End hole is using a scrapbooking punch, doesn't really have to be a keyhole shaped hole, especially if you use SS reels.
One thing I've found - if you drop the film on the darkroom floor, it's really hard to find in the dark. Also, it probably picks up dirt no matter how clean your darkroom is. I have pulled it through an anti-static cloth and loaded it anyway and results were good.
Minox is just a lot of fun.

guangong · Oct 6, 2016

I use a very large changing tent, that I use for loading 16mm movie cameras. Vacuum before loading, plenty of room and no danger of dropping on to floor. The Jimmy Li slitters are just great and a pleasure to use. A minox negative is so tiny that the slightest amount of dust must be avoided. Bruce is right. Minox is just a lot of fun. And the camera can always be available. Minox maestros were able to produce unbelievable huge enlargements, but while my skill does not measure up to that level, I can get quite good 5x7s.

Minox

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