Minolta CLE how does it compare?

[Finn lyle]

Ive decided to part ways with my Nikon rangefinder, its a beautiful and solid camera but the lack of meter and dimmer rangefinder patch make it impractical for low light situations. The Minolta CLE seems like a good next choice, the AE is extremely appealing as well as the price. What are peoples user experience with that camera? Anything to note? I was also looking at other ae rangefinders like the Konica Hexar RF, so any suggestions and advice are welcome!
Thanks, Finn.

 

[Paul Howell]

If you have deep pockets the Konica Hextar M, has become a collector's camera, the Konica lens tested out as good as any Leica glass. I've never owned a Minolta CL, had a serious desire for one, just could never come up with the money for the body and lens.

 

[Eric Rose]

Be aware that most of the old CLE's have dead meters. They are generally plagued with circuit board issues. If you can find a working one they are a fantastic camera.

 

[Colin Corneau]

What Eric said -- they're fine little cameras, but they just aren't as solidly built as a Leica or Konica body. Try look for a Zeiss Ikon body...they aren't made anymore but wonderful well-built cameras, and their viewfinders are especially great.

 

[gone]

I would be worried about unrepairable reliability issues too. I owned several CL's over the years and found them highly competent cameras, with or without a meter. Most of the bargain priced ones are the ones w/ dead meters. The CLE never attracted me, the CL was perfect except for that goofy strap lug thing.

My Konica Hexar RF was a full featured camera, more of an M7 w/ motor drive. But I never got on w/ it or it's viewfinder, which was on the dark side compared to a Leica. It's hard to describe, but there wasn't much feedback from the camera when you used it.

If I was in the market for a rangefinder now I'd look up a Bessa R, R2/R2A, R3/R3A and put the money into good glass. They're light, reliable, and have great meters and bright viewfinders. The shutter isn't as quiet as a Leica, but they're not that noisy.

 

[Eric Rose]

I use a Bessa R and love it! The meter is spot on. Noise wise it compares well agaisnt my M4 and M5. The viewfinder is brighter than the M's.

 

[Huss]

Both my perfect condition CLEs had electronic failures.
The Konica Hexar RF is also notorious for electronic failures. Pretty much you are looking at the two most unreliable M mount RF cameras.

If you want an AE M mount rf camera the choices are Lecia M7, Bessa R2/3/4, Zeiss Ikon ZM

 

[Finn lyle]

I would be worried about unrepairable reliability issues too. I owned several CL's over the years and found them highly competent cameras, with or without a meter. Most of the bargain priced ones are the ones w/ dead meters. The CLE never attracted me, the CL was perfect except for that goofy strap lug thing.

My Konica Hexar RF was a full featured camera, more of an M7 w/ motor drive. But I never got on w/ it or it's viewfinder, which was on the dark side compared to a Leica. It's hard to describe, but there wasn't much feedback from the camera when you used it.

If I was in the market for a rangefinder now I'd look up a Bessa R, R2/R2A, R3/R3A and put the money into good glass. They're light, reliable, and have great meters and bright viewfinders. The shutter isn't as quiet as a Leica, but they're not that noisy.

After trifling with a pentax LX and associated circuit issues that’s definitely something I’d like to avoid, so good to know. Sounds like the Hexar suffers bad boards too, thanks Huss. The idea of not winding the film my self is by itself off putting anyway haha.
Ill dig into Bessa v ZMs, the M7 is unfortunately (unsurprisingly) out of my budget.

 

[beemermark]

Every internet scholar knows the CLE is unreliable and unrepairable, just like any other film camera that has some type of electric circuitry. I've had a number of them but used basically just one for 20 years. I'd buy them cheap because they didn't work and every seller (based on internet lore) was sure they were unreliable. I think I sent 3 or 4 to be repaired and had no problem repairing them. They all just need a CLA. Basically mechanical the contacts needed cleaning. My last one was stolen and I have too many Leica's and such to buy another one. The lenses were gems and even a lot of white spots on the 28mm never seemed to cause any issues. The 28mm is as good as my 28 Elmarit. The only nit I have with them is there is no AE lock, the meter only works in AE.

 

[flavio81]

Every internet scholar knows the CLE is unreliable and unrepairable, just like any other film camera that has some type of electric circuitry. I've had a number of them but used basically just one for 20 years. I'd buy them cheap because they didn't work and every seller (based on internet lore) was sure they were unreliable. I think I sent 3 or 4 to be repaired and had no problem repairing them. They all just need a CLA. Basically mechanical the contacts needed cleaning. My last one was stolen and I have too many Leica's and such to buy another one. The lenses were gems and even a lot of white spots on the 28mm never seemed to cause any issues. The 28mm is as good as my 28 Elmarit. The only nit I have with them is there is no AE lock, the meter only works in AE.

This (part in bold) is basically what happens on many electronic cameras where "the electronics are dead" thus "you should not rely on electronic cameras".

Typically, simple electrical or electromechanical problems.

 

[Huss]

Every internet scholar knows the CLE is unreliable and unrepairable, just like any other film camera that has some type of electric circuitry. I've had a number of them but used basically just one for 20 years. I'd buy them cheap because they didn't work and every seller (based on internet lore) was sure they were unreliable. I think I sent 3 or 4 to be repaired and had no problem repairing them. They all just need a CLA. Basically mechanical the contacts needed cleaning. My last one was stolen and I have too many Leica's and such to buy another one. The lenses were gems and even a lot of white spots on the 28mm never seemed to cause any issues. The 28mm is as good as my 28 Elmarit. The only nit I have with them is there is no AE lock, the meter only works in AE.

Who repaired them? Most shops refuse to touch them, including all the 'famous' techs. John Easterwood (sp?) repaired one of mine but could not guarantee it for any length of time.
The Konica has so many issues with E messages, rewinding the film randomly etc. I don't know anyone who touches those.

 

[beemermark]

Used to send them to Crystal Camera in Asheville, NC. They've repaired everything I ever sent them at what was cheap at the time. The CLE electronics are the same as any Minolta of that era and I don't see never ending posts about my XE, X700, X whatever not being repairable. Buy one that works and it will probably outlive you. I hate this thread because I realize how much I miss the one someone stole and now I'm hunting for a replacement. I had the 28mm with the white spots and couldn't till the difference from my 28mm Elmarit. So the Minolta just because my other lens was a Leica. Another bad move.

 

[Huss]

The CLE electronics are not the same.

 

[beemermark]

The CLE electronics are not the same.

No they are not and I didn’t mean to imply they were. I meant the technology, materials, and assembly skill was the same.

 

[Huss]

No they are not and I didn’t mean to imply they were. I meant the technology, materials, and assembly skill was the same.

The CLE had off the film plane metering which was much more sophisticated than the other Minoltas of the time.

 

[Arthurwg]

Leica M6 would be preferable.

 

[Finn lyle]

The CLE's debated electronics aside, the no meter in manual might be a deal breaker by it self. I'm kind of between the Bessa R3A (for the 1x veiwfinder as in the SP) and Zeiss Ikon ZM, which seem to be pretty similar aside from the rangefinder base length. It would be nice if I could compare how they feel in the hand before making a purchase, I feel as though that's going to be the final determiner here.

 

[Huss]

The CLE's debated electronics aside, the no meter in manual might be a deal breaker by it self. I'm kind of between the Bessa R3A (for the 1x veiwfinder as in the SP) and Zeiss Ikon ZM, which seem to be pretty similar aside from the rangefinder base length. It would be nice if I could compare how they feel in the hand before making a purchase, I feel as though that's going to be the final determiner here.

Finn, I've owned all four - CLE, R3A, ZM and M7. Kept the M7. The R3A was a really cheap camera and now is priced above a lot of Leica M film camera, which is frankly crazy as the quality is not remotely there. It is a good camera - don't get me wrong - but not at all in the Leica class. But, if you want AE, it most probably is the cheapest reliable way to get there.
Personally I'd get a manual Leica and add a hot shoe meter or use an app.
But.. what is your price point? Because both the R3A and ZM are way up there now, so it would help if we know your budget.

FYI the ZM is nicer to use, just feels better, than the R3A or any of the Bessas. But still does not compare to an M7 or other M. The things I really disliked about the ZM is the flaring RF patch that only worked if your eye was perfectly placed (you get used to it though), the exposure LEDs which are invisible in daylight but for me the worst thing is the rf patch does not move with the frame lines! It stays put, while the frame lines move to adjust for parallax when you focus!! With Leicas, the rf patch moves with the frame lines so it is always centered.
It's a big deal for the way I shoot because I use the rf patch as a reference point for composing.

 

[Rayt]

The Hexar RF has an unacceptable shutter delay like a primitive AF body that needs to lock focus first. But since it doesn’t have AF I suspect it’s the AE? I have had several and tried to like it due to the bargain price compared to an M7 and obvious higher built quality compared to a Voigtlander Bessa but the delay was a liability for street photography.

 

[Finn lyle]

The price is ideally <2K, which it seems might even push the ZM out of range depending on where one looks. If I could find an M6 under that I would probably go for it since IMO quality metered manual > cheap auto (especially at this price range). Initially I was wondering if the CLE would be a good compromise, since it is nominally related to a Leica.

 

[jtk]

My Hexar AF had astoundingly good lens and very good viewfinder but...unfortunately...its auto exposure system was difficult/impossible to over-ride...no good at all in low light...no way to make adequately long exposures for Kodachrome... If it was fullyy mechanical I'd have kept it.

 

[jtk]

If I wanted a better film camera than Leica CL it would be Leica 2F or Leica M2, both of which were blessed by minimalism. No need for a meter in-camera when one gets used to eyeball decisions.

 

[Huss]

The price is ideally <2K, which it seems might even push the ZM out of range depending on where one looks. If I could find an M6 under that I would probably go for it since IMO quality metered manual > cheap auto (especially at this price range). Initially I was wondering if the CLE would be a good compromise, since it is nominally related to a Leica.

Looking on ebay you can get a ZM for about $1800, and I see an R3a for $1300. Neither have that incredible Leica feeling in hand, but they are cheaper than a Leica w built in meter.
FYI my ZM had a film transport failure, as did a Bessa L that I had. My R3a was fine. Point being they pretty much share the same plastic internal gears.
Right now my most ‘basic’ rangefinder M is an M4-2. If I need a meter w that I use the Voigtlander VCII on the hotshoe. I much prefer that camera than the ZM or Bessa. It just feels so good to use and no way feels like a budget option compared to fancier Ms.

Out of the ZM and the Bessa, the ZM was nicer to use.

 

[Huss]

My Hexar AF had astoundingly good lens and very good viewfinder but...unfortunately...its auto exposure system was difficult/impossible to over-ride...no good at all in low light...no way to make adequately long exposures for Kodachrome... If it was fullyy mechanical I'd have kept it.

Doesnt the Hexar AF have a top shutter speed of 1/250?

 

[gijsbert]

Yes, the Hexar AF has a top speed of 1/250, which is a bit of a bummer. An ND filter can make that less painful. The P/A mode are pretty cool, the AE worked well for me. Oh, if it wasn't for that darn shutter button problem...

I only have the CLE so I can't compare and I mainly shoot medium format these days so it doesn't get a lot of exercise, mine does still work and I did enjoy using it, mostly using the AE with the 40mm, good rangefinder patch, pretty quiet, small! I bought mine at a good price with all the 'standard' lenses, maybe 5 years ago, I am afraid to look at current prices!
I follow pppcameras, a camera repair business in England (London?), on instagram and the CLE shows some times so some repairs are possible, although the electronics are not mentioned so far.

Doesn't the Leica CL also have auto-exposure? I believe it is not as expensive as M7 or the other ones.