Minimum amount of syrup when using HC-110

[logan2z]

I've been using HC-110 to develop some Tri-X in a Nikkor single-reel tank. The tank capacity is about 240ml which leaves a bit of room at the top for agitation.

So far I've been using Dilution E (1:47) and that means 5ml of developer in the tank. But I've read some information that suggests a minimum of 6ml of HC-110 to avoid possible developer exhaustion.

The Covington web site includes this table:

*Be sure to use at least 6 mL of syrup per 135-36 or 120 roll of film, even if this requires you to put more than the usual amount of liquid in the tank.

Note that the (*) only seems to apply to dilutions F, G, H, not E. Does this imply that 5ml for dilution E is sufficient to avoid exhaustion? Or would it be better to switch to a different dilution, like B, that would use 7.5ml? The development times seem all over the place for Dilution B - 3.75mins from Kodak (which is generally deemed to be a mistake in the data sheet), 6-7 mins in Photrio posts and the Covington web site, which is why I've been avoiding it. I've been using 6.5 mins with Dilution E (which is recommended on Covington) so 6 mins for Dilution B seems a bit long, given how much more concentrated it is, but I might give it a try and see what I get.

I realize that I'm going to have to experiment to find the right personal dilution/development time for me, but I'm trying my best to at least find a decent starting point.

 

[George Collier]

I think I've seen 5ml as being enough for a 35mm 36, but I've always used a double tank, empty reel on top with enough space above for agitation, which then doubles the amount to guarantee enough syrup, so the minimum isn't an issue. I measured exactly how much liquid it takes to completely cover the top reel and no more, to optimize the space for developer to move around - for agitation reasons. I mix 500, then draw off 480ml.

 

[MattKing]

If you extrapolate the capacity information in the Kodak data sheet, it works out to 6 ml per 135/36 or 120 roll or 8x10 sheet.
There is no doubt that there is a substantial safety factor built into that, because it is designed to guide commercial labs.
The capacity will actually vary with the negatives - an over-exposed negative shot of a subject that is primarily white will use up more developer capacity than my favorite sort of deep in the forest shot with the minimum necessary exposure.
If you are concerned about avoiding localized developer exhaustion problems - highlights that aren't fully developed - try to use some at least close to 6 ml per roll. If you are a risk taker, 5 ml may be fine if your negatives are of sufficient variety overall as to not exhaust the capacity. If the roll is of a white cat out in the sunlit snow - don't chance it!
And as for why there is no asterisk beside the dilution E recommendations, I would guess that it is because they are based on a 300 ml or larger tank.
Whatever you do, don't over-fill the tank. There needs to be some air at the top, because otherwise the developer won't "slosh" properly, leading to problems with uneven agitation and development.

 

[logan2z]

And as for why there is no asterisk beside the dilution E recommendations, I would guess that it is because they are based on a 300 ml or larger tank.

Sorry Matt, not quite sure what you mean. Why does the size of the tank matter when determining the minimum amount of developer in the tank?

FWIW, this is the header of the table that I didn't include in my original post:

So the numbers in the first column (5ml for Dilution E) seem to be based on a 240ml tank.

Wondering if Dilution B at 6 minutes is worth a try, but still a bit confused why Covington recommends 6 mins for B when he recommends 6.5 minutes for E. It seems like the difference in development times should be larger, given the differences in dilution.

 

[MattKing]

Sorry Matt, not quite sure what you mean. Why does the size of the tank matter when determining the minimum amount of developer in the tank?

Because there is no way to squeeze enough of the more dilute versions of HC-110 working solution into the smaller tanks, in order to ensure enough of the syrup concentrate is in the tank.
For example, if you are using dilution E and want at least 6 ml of the syrup in your tank, the smallest tank that will hold enough dilution E working solution is 288 ml.
With that addition to your post, I expect that the table shown is using 5 ml (not 6 ml) as the minimum quantity of syrup.

 

[logan2z]

Because there is no way to squeeze enough of the more dilute versions of HC-110 working solution into the smaller tanks, in order to ensure enough of the syrup concentrate is in the tank.

Right, I misunderstood what you were saying.

With that addition to your post, I expect that the table shown is using 5 ml (not 6 ml) as the minimum quantity of syrup.

That's how I read it too.

Any thoughts on the times for Dilution B vs. Dilution E? Dilution B would result in 6ml in the tank but I'm not sure where to begin with development times. 6 minutes seems to be a common starting point, but I'm not sure that jives with the 6.5mins Covington recommends for Dilution E.

 

[newtorf]

I did a lot of research and experiments with HC-110 in the past. I read somewhere that the minimal recommended amount for one roll of 36exp 35mm film is 3ml. Yes it is just 3ml. I had developed hundreds of rolls without any problems with the developer.

However, nowadays I dilute 5ml of HC-110 syrup to 500ml and stand develop 2 rolls of 36 exp 35mm films in a 480ml (actually 500ml) stainless steel tank, or 1 roll of 120 film, or 4 sheets of 4x5 films. The results look just fine to me. That's 2.5ml per 36exp 35mm roll.

At the end of the day, you can always give it a try and figure out your preference.

 

[MattKing]

Any thoughts on the times for Dilution B vs. Dilution E? Dilution B would result in 6ml in the tank but I'm not sure where to begin with development times. 6 minutes seems to be a common starting point, but I'm not sure that jives with the 6.5mins Covington recommends for Dilution E.

Use 1 + 39, and a development time that is slightly less than the dilution E recommendation - e.g. 6.25 mins.
Then season to test.
If you like, you can call 1 + 39 dilution "L" (for logan).

 

[logan2z]

Use 1 + 39, and a development time that is slightly less than the dilution E recommendation - e.g. 6.25 mins.
Then season to test.
If you like, you can call 1 + 39 dilution "L" (for logan).

Kodak calls that Dilution D (bummer, missed out on having my own dilution ), but they don't give dev times for it. Surprisingly, I don't see any times for that dilution in the Massive Dev Chart either. But 6.25 mins seems like a reasonable place to start, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[MattKing]

Historically, dilution D was probably used for other purposes - like print shop/graphics arts materials - so you wouldn't expect to see information in the modern continuous tone film related data sheets.
And for the same reason, it doesn't surprise me it doesn't show up on the MDC.
Here is your chance to submit to the MDC, and become "published".

 

[BradS]

I've always used 10mL + 390mL = 1+39 too.

 

[DWThomas]

I did a lot of research and experiments with HC-110 in the past. I read somewhere that the minimal recommended amount for one roll of 36exp 35mm film is 3ml. Yes it is just 3ml. I had developed hundreds of rolls without any problems with the developer.

Yes, when I first discovered the Covington site, 3ml was the number. And I use less than 6ml for the not-Kodak-specified "Dilution H" on 35mm and have no particular complaints. I suspect a scene such as a couple of small dark leaves on a sunny snowbank replicated on 36 frames which would require reducing almost the entire 80 square inches to silver might tax the developer a bit. But how often does an average roll approach that condition.

 

[logan2z]

I've always used 10mL + 390mL = 1+39 too.

What development time have you been using?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Depends on what application I'm developing for, and which specific film. I routinely dilute it way more than any of the above for certain specialized applications. But for general photography it's more likely to be dil F. Frankly, I ordinarily don't even use HC-110 for general developing, but only for those specialized technical tasks it's so versatile for. Haven't tried any of the new style HC -110 syrup on pancakes yet.

 

[BradS]

What development time have you been using?

I purposely didn’t mention times because I really very strongly believe that everyone must work out their own times. There are just way too many variables. However, for hc110(10+390), I rate Tri-X at EI250 and give it about 6 1/2 ~ 7 minutes, agitating continuously for the first 30sec and 5-10 seconds each 30 thereafter using the wobbly figure eight agitation method in a Patterson tank. Adjust time for ambient temperature according to mfgr’s data sheet within reasonable limits. That’s for prints on glossy, VC, RC paper (Ilford MGIV), developed in Dektol, exposed with a condenser enlarger, and on, and on, and on. Note also that hc110 is quite sensitive to agitation.

For more info, may I recommend,
“The Craft of Photography”, by David Vestal.
I read many books before this one, all good, but this one really put it all together for me.