Minimizing Water Usage

jstraw · Feb 4, 2007

I'm plotting to minimize water consumption. I'd like feedback and tips from others. I welcome ideas that are better than my initial thoughts.

Here's where water consumption occurs in the greatest quantities and what I plan to change:

Print Holding Tank - I use this for holding RC or FB papers. I transfer FB papers to an archival washer at the end of a printing session but I use it as the washer itself for RC paper. I plan to stop letting it run. I'll fill it and use it as a still holding tank till the end of a session, then run it for 4-5 minutes, rotating prints to wash RC...or not, if I'm transferring FB prints to the washer.

Archival Washer - It's a Zone VI 11x14. I need to find out how many changes of water I really need and over what span of time. I may use a device that opens and closes the water valve at intervals if X number of changes over a span of time is better than continuous water changes.

Film Washing - Currently, I do twenty changes of water from a running hose. I can reduce consumption by pouring the water from a vessel rather than letting the hose run. Is 20 changes adequate?

Clean Up - Currently I rinse down trays, tanks, tools, sink, etc., with running water. I'm considering capturing print washing water for rinse-down of equipment.

Any feedback? Any suggestion?

Photo Engineer · Feb 4, 2007

A short wash with a print holding tank of fresh water is very efficient if followed by a good short wash.

Using wash water to clean tanks and trays is not a good idea. You can end up with fixer residue on the sides of your developer tray.

Use of water as warm as the film or print can stand is also helpful. The warmer the better/shorter the wash can be.

PE

Lee L · Feb 4, 2007

Here's an interesting study and recommendations based on the Ilford archival film washing routine. It could save you some water over what you're doing now.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/ilfwash.pdf

Lee

jstraw · Feb 4, 2007

Thanks guys.

Anyone have any information about the minimum requirements for FB archival print washing?

Neal · Feb 4, 2007

Dear jstraw,

Print Holding Tank - I do not believe that running water in your holding tray is necessary. I simply use a tray with water.

Archival Washer - Use hypo clearing agent before inserting into the achival washer. My washer is home built but I use nothing more than a trickle once it is full. Time wise, I wash for 20-30 minutes (FB) and I never have stains when toning.

Film Washing - Use HCA, follow the Ilford washing method. Get a Jobo setup and save even more water.

If you are really concerned, test your working prints for residual fixer.

Neal Wydra

PatTrent · Feb 4, 2007

jstraw said:
I'm plotting to minimize water consumption. I'd like feedback and tips from others. I welcome ideas that are better than my initial thoughts.

Here's where water consumption occurs in the greatest quantities and what I plan to change:

Print Holding Tank - I use this for holding RC or FB papers. I transfer FB papers to an archival washer at the end of a printing session but I use it as the washer itself for RC paper. I plan to stop letting it run. I'll fill it and use it as a still holding tank till the end of a session, then run it for 4-5 minutes, rotating prints to wash RC...or not, if I'm transferring FB prints to the washer.

Archival Washer - It's a Zone VI 11x14. I need to find out how many changes of water I really need and over what span of time. I may use a device that opens and closes the water valve at intervals if X number of changes over a span of time is better than continuous water changes.

Film Washing - Currently, I do twenty changes of water from a running hose. I can reduce consumption by pouring the water from a vessel rather than letting the hose run. Is 20 changes adequate?

Clean Up - Currently I rinse down trays, tanks, tools, sink, etc., with running water. I'm considering capturing print washing water for rinse-down of equipment.

Any feedback? Any suggestion?

I use that same method for film washing (and for the plain water stop bath prior to the TF-4 fixer), and it not only saves water, but keeps my processing temperatures uniform. I find it easy to chill (or heat) water for mixing Rodinal or HC110 developer, but getting the running wash water to the temperature I used for developing is maddening. In the winter, my taps run way too cold and in the summer way too hot. So I fill big plastic water jugs a day or two ahead and store them in my climate-controlled darkroom/laundryroom till needed. It's a double bonus!

Pat

Steve Smith · Feb 4, 2007

PatTrent said:
but getting the running wash water to the temperature I used for developing is maddening. In the winter, my taps run way too cold and in the summer way too hot.

I never worry about this. I get the developer temperature correct then use whatever comes out of the tap to mix the fixer and do the final wash. So long as it is not too hot to damage the emulsion, I don't think it can do any harm.

Steve.

jstraw · Feb 4, 2007

PatTrent said:
I use that same method for film washing (and for the plain water stop bath prior to the TF-4 fixer), and it not only saves water, but keeps my processing temperatures uniform. I find it easy to chill (or heat) water for mixing Rodinal or HC110 developer, but getting the running wash water to the temperature I used for developing is maddening. In the winter, my taps run way too cold and in the summer way too hot. So I fill big plastic water jugs a day or two ahead and store them in my climate-controlled darkroom/laundryroom till needed. It's a double bonus!

Pat

I have a good water panel so it's trivially easy for me to get my running water locked down at 68 degrees. This has led me to maintaining a running water bath for process chemistry and to the wasting of a lot of water. My plan is to fill my water bath with 68 degree water and let the temp drift to the extent that it will as room temperature diverges from 68 degrees. I have a Zone VI compensating timer with a temperature probe in the water bath so these minor temperature changes are easily compensated for.

You do 20 water changes between developer and fixer?

Monophoto · Feb 4, 2007

jstraw said:
Print Holding Tank - I use this for holding RC or FB papers. I transfer FB papers to an archival washer at the end of a printing session but I use it as the washer itself for RC paper. I plan to stop letting it run. I'll fill it and use it as a still holding tank till the end of a session, then run it for 4-5 minutes, rotating prints to wash RC...or not, if I'm transferring FB prints to the washer.

I've always done this - a consequence of always having a darkroom that is too small to process and wash at the same time.

jstraw said:
Archival Washer - It's a Zone VI 11x14. I need to find out how many changes of water I really need and over what span of time. I may use a device that opens and closes the water valve at intervals if X number of changes over a span of time is better than continuous water changes.

I think David Vestal did a test in which he ran an archival washer for a while, turned off the water and let it stagnate for a while (overnight?), and then turned the water back on to finish things off. Probably ended up as a chapter in his book, and like everything else he did, it's classic common sense.

My gut feeling is that the ideal wash sequence be several cycles of running water followed by stagnating water. I'm pretty sure that you would want the water to run long enough each time to completely change out the water in the washer.

Frankly, I think I accomplish the same net effect by washing in a tray, allowing the prints to stagnate in a tray of water, and then transferring them to fresh water and repeating the cycle half a dozen or so times. In total, I wash a batch of prints in about 2 gallons of water, and I suspect that an archival washer would take several times as much.

jstraw said:
Film Washing - Currently, I do twenty changes of water from a running hose. I can reduce consumption by pouring the water from a vessel rather than letting the hose run. Is 20 changes adequate?

Why use the running hose? I draw out a liter of water in my graduate (a polyethelene pitcher that came as a component of the kit containing baby bottles we bought when our oldest son was born - 30 years ago). I leave the film on the reels, and fill the tank above the top of the reels. After a few minutes, I dump the water, and refill the tank from the pitcher. Using HCA, I call the job done after 6 cycles of soak and dump. That's about three liters of water in total for 2x35mm rolls of film.

jstraw said:
Clean Up - Currently I rinse down trays, tanks, tools, sink, etc., with running water. I'm considering capturing print washing water for rinse-down of equipment.

Makes sense although I'm not sure that there is that much to be saved at that point in the process.

Jim Jones · Feb 4, 2007

For RC paper I used a tray system similar to the film wash technique in Lee's link. Prints hastily done in large quantities 30 years ago are still good. Since my printing now is low volume, I use trays. First, a quick rinse, then into a holding tray. At the end of the session the prints are shuffled several minutes in each of three more trays. For fiber prints a washing aid is used after the holding tray. The water from the last two washing trays is used for clean-up and the quick rinse in the next session.

PatTrent · Feb 6, 2007

jstraw said:
I have a good water panel so it's trivially easy for me to get my running water locked down at 68 degrees. This has led me to maintaining a running water bath for process chemistry and to the wasting of a lot of water. My plan is to fill my water bath with 68 degree water and let the temp drift to the extent that it will as room temperature diverges from 68 degrees. I have a Zone VI compensating timer with a temperature probe in the water bath so these minor temperature changes are easily compensated for.

You do 20 water changes between developer and fixer?

No, sorry I wasn't clear about that last part. I don't do 20 water changes between developer and the TF-4 fixer--only two water changes with several inversions each. What I meant to say is that I use the Ilford method for the final film wash, and that I use water from big jugs that have "stood" over night to cool down or heat up to room temperature.

Pat

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

PatTrent said:
No, sorry I wasn't clear about that last part. I don't do 20 water changes between developer and the TF-4 fixer--only two water changes with several inversions each. What I meant to say is that I use the Ilford method for the final film wash, and that I use water from big jugs that have "stood" over night to cool down or heat up to room temperature.

Pat

Ah, I see. Thank you.

Loose Gravel · Feb 6, 2007

Cascade by Summitek is probably the lowest usage print washer. 1 liter per minute. I've heard, too, that all that water doesn't have to be fresh; that it can be recirculated many times as long as it is moving and then finish with fresh water. However, I don't remember the source of this info so I don't know if it is any good. Wouldn't be that hard to test.

Are you short on water where you are? Save you print washing water and flush the toilets or do dishes. Do you have a sistern and rainbarrels?

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

Loose Gravel said:
Cascade by Summitek is probably the lowest usage print washer. 1 liter per minute. I've heard, too, that all that water doesn't have to be fresh; that it can be recirculated many times as long as it is moving and then finish with fresh water. However, I don't remember the source of this info so I don't know if it is any good. Wouldn't be that hard to test.

Are you short on water where you are? Save you print washing water and flush the toilets or do dishes. Do you have a sistern and rainbarrels?

No, not short. Just determined to run a low-impact darkroom.

Lee L · Feb 6, 2007

Loose Gravel said:
Cascade by Summitek is probably the lowest usage print washer. 1 liter per minute.

1 liter/minute is the recommended flow rate for the 20x24 model. The 11x16 model recommended flow rate is 250 ml/minute, and 700 ml/min for the 16x22 model.

You can measure flow rate by capturing water coming from the outlet hose of the Summiteks. You can also wash sheet film in them, and the notches for overflow from one compartment to another can be used to keep dental film clips with smaller sheets of film separated in the same compartment.

Lee

jstraw · Feb 6, 2007

My flow meter reads down to .5 gal per minute. If I can figure out how long a water change takes at any given flow rate, I can do a sequence of changes and stagnations in intervals.

Loose Gravel · Feb 6, 2007

Jstraw, that's a good thing.

Lee, right you are. Thanks for the correction.

Minimizing Water Usage

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