Minimizing smell

Jim_in_Kyiv · Jul 18, 2005

In a mere 94 days I'll be getting married to an incredible lady - composes shots better than I do, for one, OK'd the 8x10 field camera for another. However, when we move in together, we'll have one problem - an incredibly sensitive nose. So far I've been developing in my bathroom, but I know that the smell of D-76 and vinegar is going to have to come to an end.

I still want to process my own B&W - 4x5 is the largest at the moment, but next year I'll be doing 8x10 as well. I'm willing to change chemicals to anything less odorous if possible. Ventilation could be a problem - rented apartment with brick walls - so changing chemistry or processes will be easier than trying to move the odor somewhere else.
Any suggestions?

Jim_in_Kyiv · Jul 18, 2005

A quick apology if this should have gone into the Chemistry category instead. However, I've been developing in open trays. Is there some equipment I should be thinking of instead that could solve the issue?

Claire Senft · Jul 18, 2005

I am inclined to think that anyone who dislikes a fairy innocous order such as vinegar and water will probably make neccessary the darkroom's relocation.

Keith Tapscott. · Jul 18, 2005

I don`t see a problem with the D-76, but I would take a look at the low odour stop baths and fixers that are available from companies such as Fotospeed and Tetenal.
If your chosen Darkroom has a window which can be opened to give the room an airing after each processing and printing session, then so much the better for reducing unpleasant odours. Also, make sure you buy an apron or overcoat that you can remove if you splash any chemicals on yourself, so that you don`t carry the fumes to another room.

mark · Jul 18, 2005

Clayton's oderless stop and fix.

Okayed the 8x10 eh? Think she could call my wife?

Ian Grant · Jul 18, 2005

PQ developers smell less than MQ, also use a Citric acid stop bath.

You could process your prints in a Nova slot processor but they are very expensive for what they are. (Excellent for colour printing though).

Ian

blansky · Jul 18, 2005

I use odorless stop bath and I cover all my trays with plexiglas that have any real odor. That means fix and selenium are always covered. I use 1/8 and 1/4 inch plexi, usually about two inches bigger than the tray and have very little odor problem.

Michael

Jim_in_Kyiv · Jul 18, 2005

Oh, yeah, thanks for reminding me about something to wear over my clothes - that should help!
Most bathrooms over here are nowhere near windows - I can't think of one that I've seen in a flat that did have a window, actually.
Also, thanks for the Tetenal tip. We're lucky to have Kodak ship in chemistry once in a while, but I have friends who come in from the UK on occasion. Will look into it.
I won't give up on processing at home until I've tried everything I can. Perhaps I could wait until it rains, walk the labrador for a while, and try to disguise it under the wet dog smell. Maybe not.

Bob F. · Jul 18, 2005

Citic acid based stop bath is completely odourless and low odour fixer is available; I use Fotospeed for both, but there are others.

Cheers, Bob.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jul 18, 2005

For many films I use a plain water stop bath. 30secs agitation, repeat for 3-4 changes. As long as the pH of your emulsion is lowered outside of the alkaline state, you're clear for fixing.

Ole · Jul 18, 2005

I second (or third or fourth) the suggestion for citric acid stop bath - if you have to use one.

Another way to do it is to use a very smelly sulfide toner just once, and promise never to use it again. Anything else smells sweet by comparison.

Jim_in_Kyiv · Jul 18, 2005

The sulfide toner idea could backfire - she could associate LF with it forever, and that could be very bad indeed for combining sheet film and marital bliss.

There have been several other great ideas here. I'll have to mull them over the morning coffee and go from there.

Dave Miller · Jul 18, 2005

Adopting the use of low odour chemicals is a step in the right direction. Also consider the use of a Paterson Orbital tank. These use a low volume of chemical, and since they are closed during developement further restrict any fumes.
Although no longer manufactured they often come up on ebay as this one is:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29993&item=7531366230&rd=1

I use them for both film and print development up to 10x8.

dancqu · Jul 18, 2005

JiminKyiv said:
... I know that the smell of D-76 and vinegar
is going to have to come to an end.
I'm willing to change chemicals to anything
less odorous if possible.
Any suggestions?

You problem is one of convention. A completely odorless,
fumeless, darkroom is no problem at all. I dare say there are
many who would like to take up film and print processing
but are put off by the deluge of convention which
engulfs the pursuit.

I'm an adventurous sort and a good thing. Now my small
darkroom is big because I've adopted the single tray method
of processing prints. I use chemistry one-shot so need not
store. The alkaline prints or film need no stop and are
fixed in essentially ph neutral, unadulterated,
A. or S. Thiosulfate.

A metering out of chemistry is needed when using it one-shot.
There is no need to throw what might be good chemistry
down the drain. Dan

psvensson · Jul 18, 2005

You could just ditch the stop bath altogether and use water instead. For fixer, I recommend Agfa FX Universal. It's not really marketed for B&W, but it's neutral and has very low odor.

Ascorbic acid developers smell even less than PQ developers, in my experience.

Jim_in_Kyiv · Jul 19, 2005

I wouldn't say the problem is one of convention, but one of someone with an extreme sensitivity to sounds marrying someone with an extreme sensivity to smells. It'll be great when we have kids . I've got a low-grade sense of smell, so chemistry has never bothered me at all in open trays. But I understand how she feels, so the idea is to keep her happy.

The Paterson Orbital tank could work in time - we've got a flat full of necessities like coffee machines to buy first. Covering the trays might help as well if she still detects something in the mean time. Citric acid/water stop baths - I'll have to play with those and see what I like most.

The citric acid smell could pleasantly offset the wet labrador smell, or the burnt breakfast smell. And for those (rare) arguements, there's always the sulfide toner.

I'll look into ascorbic acid developers in the chemistry section.

Donald Qualls · Jul 19, 2005

As above -- citric acid makes a fine odorless acid stop, and water works well for a lot of applications. I can barely smell my HC-110 at all, developer is really the minimal odor producer in the darkroom. Fixer is another concern; probably the lowest odor method is to mix as you use it, one-shot, with straight sodium thiosulfate, which is near neutral and has no appreciable odor (common fixers have nearly as much acetic acid as stop bath).

Another thing to consider -- keep a can of Lysol spray or commercial air freshener of your choice in the bathroom, and just develop a habit of giving the room a nice shot of the stuff as you finish cleaning up after a developing session. I'll cover or clear most any common chemical scent -- does a wonder for the rather potent stink of Caffenol, and if it'll kill that stuff, it should reduce any other darkroom odor to manageable levels.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 19, 2005

TF-4 has a mild ammonia smell that isn't too bad. I keep a lidded 5-quart tank of it of the sort used for processing sheet film on hangers with my other chemicals in a closet, and we don't notice the smell when I'm not actually processing film. I also have a tank of Acufine in the closet, and I bring them into the bathroom to process. I use a water stop.

My wife is the sort of person who is always noticing a funny smell, whether it's really there or not, so not noticing this one is a good sign.

Claire Senft · Jul 19, 2005

Just a thought. Others have mentioned low odor chemicals which are a step in the right direction.

I would investigate having an exhaust fan over the chemicals that conveys the odors outside. I would have an each tray have a hood that is very light in weight that covers the full tray that can be parted for the insertion of paper or film. One enclosure for each tray going to a common exhaust line. Sufficient vacuum should be available so that even with the flaps parted little to no odor escapes and that the remainder of the darkroom be higher in air pressure than the sink area. For tray enclosures I am thinking a material such as visqueen. I hope I did not mangle that spelling beyond comprehension.

If this is done successfully you might find not only are her composition skills greater than your own but also within a period of time so are her printing skills.

Now, I have a question for you: Do you need any advice on what honeymooners can do in a darkroom while the prints are washing?

FrankB · Jul 20, 2005

Also bear in mind something like a Neutradol odour neutraliser. These are usually sprays (not so good) but can be obtained as a gel-type air-freshener-style gizmo which works rather well.

Keith Tapscott. · Jul 20, 2005

Dave Miller said:
Adopting the use of low odour chemicals is a step in the right direction. Also consider the use of a Paterson Orbital tank. These use a low volume of chemical, and since they are closed during developement further restrict any fumes.
Although no longer manufactured they often come up on ebay as this one is:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29993&item=7531366230&rd=1

I use them for both film and print development up to 10x8.

I have a Paterson Orbital too along with a motor base, for developing several sheets at once, a Jobo CPA2 or CPP2 with Lift and a Jobo expert drum would probably be more convenient, much more expensive though.

Murray@uptowngallery · Jul 20, 2005

Exhaust fans may be a problem if there are brick walls & no windows...I keep contemplating them as home DIY places have 70 CFM bathroom exhaust fans for less than $10...but I wondered if the extra airflow meant accelerated oxidation for chemistry.

lee · Jul 20, 2005

the best way I have found to minamize oders is to bath regularly

lee\c

thedarkroomstudios · Jul 20, 2005

lee said:
the best way I have found to minamize oders is to bath regularly

lee\c

Doh! But how does one bathe when there is film in the tub??? To smell or not to smell, there is no question.

Keith Tapscott. · Jul 20, 2005

lee said:
the best way I have found to minamize oders is to bath regularly

lee\c

My neighbour takes one once a year, whether he needs one or not.
Pooh! where did I put the air freshener!!!!!!!!!

Minimizing smell

Jim_in_Kyiv

Jim_in_Kyiv

Claire Senft

Keith Tapscott.

mark

Ian Grant

blansky

Jim_in_Kyiv

Bob F.

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Minimizing smell

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