Minimise Grain on Tri-X 135

suedgar · Dec 14, 2005

Hello to all,

I am from Singapore and I happened to stumble onto this forum which I find very informative and I am glad to find like-minded film lovers here.

I have question about Tri-X 135 format- What developer or developing method is best for downplaying the grains, i.e giving the grains a tight look.

nworth · Dec 14, 2005

Tri-X has pretty fine grain for an ISO 400 film. The way to minimize its appearance is to use a fine grain developer. You will still see the grain, but it won't be as obvious. Some suggestions are HC-110, D-76, and D-23. A high solvent developer like D-23 or D-76 (undiluted) may take a bit of the edge off the sharpness, although the grain will be a bit softer. Stay away from developers like Rodinal (or most of those advertised for high acutance) if you want to minimize grain. To some extent, the choice is a compromise between apparent sharpness and apparent grain.

Gerald Koch · Dec 14, 2005

Traditionally, one of the ways to lessen grain in 35mm films is to avoid over-development and over-exposure. The thinnest negative with good shadow detail which will print on grade 3 paper should be considered ideal.

AndrewH · Dec 14, 2005

I recommend Microdol-X 1:3. Very nice, sharp, and fine grained.

kaiyen · Dec 14, 2005

I'll second the vote for thinnest neg possible.

if you want the smoothest grain possible, go with a high solvent developer like Perceptol. if you want a better compromise, I would second the D76 stock option.

allan

AndrewH · Dec 14, 2005

It is much easier, IMHO, to get a thin negative with Microdol 1:3, its a soft working developer.

BradS · Dec 14, 2005

I get pretty good results with HC-110 dil. D (1+39), 20 degrees C, three inversions per minute, 6 minutes.

suedgar · Dec 14, 2005

Thanks all for the prompt replies.

I cant get D76 around here, what about Ilford DDX? Is that as good?

dancqu · Dec 14, 2005

suedgar said:
I have question about Tri-X 135 format-
What developer or developing method is
best for downplaying the grains, ...

Apart from a film's characteristic grain the
alkalinity of the developer has the greatest
influence. Sulfite levels have little to do with
grain size but do alter it's character.

I think their is some confusion with regards
sulfite levels and ph. If one reflects, one sees
that the "fine grain" developers are actually low
ph developers. At the extreme are developers such
as FX-1 or Rodinal and D-23 or D-25. Dan

Lowell Huff · Dec 14, 2005

I am familiar with the Ilford DDX formula. It will give you very nice results with Tri X film. I recommend that you process that film the same as the perameters for Ilford HP5 film.

Phillip P. Dimor · Dec 14, 2005

I would also recommend Microdol-X 1:3, and also with Plus-X film (beautiful combination imho)

I liked 35mm tri-x with pmk pyro, I thought that was pretty grainless (compared to rodinal)

tbm · Dec 15, 2005

Microdol-X diluted 1:3 at 75 degrees for 18 minutes produces gorgeous Tri-X negatives with no pronounced grain pattern and wonderful tonality. Highly recommended, inasmuch as I've been processing it this way for three years, successfully every time.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 15, 2005

If you can get Ilford product, I would recommend Microphen for tight grain.

- Thom

suedgar said:
Thanks all for the prompt replies.

I cant get D76 around here, what about Ilford DDX? Is that as good?

fhovie · Dec 15, 2005

Microphen will give you better film speed than Microdol, which will help your shadows (unless you rate your film at ASA200). Microdol, Microphen, D76 and D23 are all tried and true winners but my vote for this is XTOL. XTOL will give you fine but crisp grain. It will not leave your enlargements looking mushy. It will give you full film speed and is a less toxic developer as well. I have used all these developers and keep most of them on the shelf and each has its place, for this application, I would choose XTOL.

Ronald Moravec · Dec 15, 2005

You can not make the grain disappear no matter what.

It can be minimised with D76 undiluted which is much better than 1:1 dilution. 1:3 dilutions of even fine grain developers will be grainer than D76 stock.

D76 stock will get EI400, where as Microdol /Perceptol will get EI200.

Rodinal will produce sharp, large grain.

A diffusion enlarger will minimise grain slightly compared to a condenser.

The finest grain I ever got with conventional film is TMax 100 in D76 stock. 6 1/2 min at 68, agitation 5/30 sec.

The way to minimise grain and maximise sharpness is a larger neg. Even 4x5 shows slight grain in a 8x10.

dancqu · Dec 16, 2005

fhovie said:
XTOL will give you fine but crisp grain. ... for
this application, I would choose XTOL.

XTOL is a PC developer and at a 1:1 or 1:2 dilution has
only a moderate amount of sulfite. If the formula is similar
to that of Mytol's, the Home-brew version of XTOL, then
I'd think the ph close to that of D-76.

Some maintain that phenidone will deliver more film speed
and at a lower ph. The "fine" is due to a moderate ph and
the "crisp" is due to a moderate sulfite level.

A low sulfite metol developer will likely give the same "fine
but crisp grain". A formula I use on a 120 roll now and then
is 1 gram metol + 10 grams S. sulfite with 500ml solution
volume. That is 1/8 of an 8 - 80 gram D-23. Dan

markbb · Dec 16, 2005

Frankly, if you're worried about grain on 35mm film, then your shooting the wrong format. Any reasonable sized enlargement (e.g. 16"x20")is going to exhibit grain, regardless of developer. Medium format is being killed by digital, so I suggest you sell all your toy cameras and buy something larger. A 10x8 field camera is a good starting point. Grain will become a thing of the past.

Tom Stanworth · Dec 16, 2005

"Frankly, if you're worried about grain on 35mm film, then your shooting the wrong format. Any reasonable sized enlargement (e.g. 16"x20")is going to exhibit grain, regardless of developer. Medium format is being killed by digital, so I suggest you sell all your toy cameras and buy something larger. A 10x8 field camera is a good starting point. Grain will become a thing of the past"

I know this was tongue in cheek.....However, there are many reasons to shoot 35mm (speed, weight, size, cost etc etc) and if you still need fine grain you have 2 options:

1. Stick with TriX and use a fine grain dev (like....perceptol, microdal X, stock d76, Aculux 2 , d23 etc)
2. Change film to something finer grained of same or lower speed (I would recommend delta 400 for finer grain if you want same speed)

Simple.

Tom

Fintan · Dec 16, 2005

I'm my Tri-X days, Xtol was my choice of developers. Put it on your list to try out.

Minimise Grain on Tri-X 135

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