Minimal 35s

blockend · Apr 6, 2018

flavio81 said:
I have considered the XA but feared vignetting and distortion.

I bought an XA2 when it came out in 1980 and vignetting was terrible, so bad I thought there was a fault and returned it to Olympus. They sent it back saying the camera was performing to specifications. On slide the edges faded almost to black, so I sold it and didn't return to Olympus clamshells until the MjuII/Stylus Epic, which was fine.

Last year I picked up an XA3 which was launched in 1985 and there was no intrusive vignetting. My guess is fall-off was a known problem on the early models, and Olympus quietly fixed the problem on later versions of the same camera.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 6, 2018

blockend said:
The unmetered Zenit B was available alongside the metered Zenits. The Topcon RS is the unmetered Super-D. Pentax SL was made until '68, Konica Auto-Reflex P, Praktica L2, plain prism F and F2 (arguably), Miranda Sensomat RS ('70-71), Kiev 17 (77-84), Zeiss Ikarex (-71), Exakta RTL1000 and Varex 500 (-73), Canon FP, Exa IIa (-64), last Minolta SR-1, Chinese SLRs with Minolta bayonet....

Miranda Fv.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 6, 2018

flavio81 said:
Allright, then my favorite minimalistic camera is my Mamiya RB67 pro-S. You see, it doesn't have a meter nor self-timer...

... it is also far from minimalist -- interchangeable everything.

We're allowing Nikon F and F2, as long as they're in "minimal configuration" i.e. plain prism.

flavio81 · Apr 6, 2018

blockend said:
I bought an XA2 when it came out in 1980 and vignetting was terrible, so bad I thought there was a fault and returned it to Olympus. They sent it back saying the camera was performing to specifications. On slide the edges faded almost to black, so I sold it and didn't return to Olympus clamshells until the MjuII/Stylus Epic, which was fine.

Last year I picked up an XA3 which was launched in 1985 and there was no intrusive vignetting. My guess is fall-off was a known problem on the early models, and Olympus quietly fixed the problem on later versions of the same camera.

XA, XA2 and XA3 have completely different lenses AFAIK.

blockend · Apr 6, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
Miranda Fv.

But not the FvT!

flavio81 · Apr 6, 2018

albada said:
All K-mount (I almost wrote K-Mart ) cameras have DOF preview. You rotate the entire lens a little on its mount, as if you were starting to remove it, and the iris closes down. Clumsy, but it works.
Mark Overton

Yes, i know this trick, but it is far too cumberaome!

blockend · Apr 6, 2018

flavio81 said:
XA, XA2 and XA3 have completely different lenses AFAIK.

I think the XA2 and XA3 were the same lens, but I'd have to check. The only difference as far as I'm aware is DX coding, higher ISO, and a backlight compensation switch on the XA3. My suspicions re. lens tweaks are raised because some people swear their XA (rangefinder type) vignettes badly, while others see no more fall-off than their SLR. Likewise my XA2 was like looking through a tunnel at all apertures, other people say there's no vignetting worth mentioning on their XA2. My XA3 is fine. As my XA2 was first batch, it wouldn't surprise me if head office tweaked the specs or the mount on subsequent production runs of the same model. Such quiet re-engineering was sometimes the case, and avoided a re-call.

Bill Burk · Apr 6, 2018

I’ve decided it has to be the Spotmatic F. (See long-winded explanation in the other thread). Because its lens mount has the lathe cut for the SMCT pin.

When I take out the battery it will become my simple camera.

I can’t have an SL after all.

ac12 · Apr 6, 2018

Exakta

E. von Hoegh · Apr 6, 2018

Bill Burk said:
I’ve decided it has to be the Spotmatic F. (See long-winded explanation in the other thread). Because its lens mount has the lathe cut for the SMCT pin.

When I take out the battery it will become my simple camera.

I can’t have an SL after all.

No meters. Meters incorporated aren't minimal.

Bill Burk · Apr 6, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
No meters. Meters incorporated aren't minimal.

I can’t accept that requirement because no meterless M42 exist with the lathe cut. So for me no SL. The SL would be my choice. Maybe.. I could swap out the mount.

BradS · Apr 6, 2018

Hmmm, well.... I've gone though my entire inventory of cameras and, not counting the pinhole cameras,
only the Crown Graphic, Franka Rolfix Jr. and Leica iiif fit the criteria....
Curiously, all of these were made in 1951~1952 ?!?!?
The Crown Graphic is my favorite of the three, by a very wide margin.

(EDIT: just realized that only one of these is a 35mm camera...so, the little Leica, I guess, by default).

I had an Honeywell Pentax H1a. Loved it. I carried it everywhere, even dirt biking in the Mojave (desert).
I took it in to a local (back in the late 1990's) shop to have it overhauled.
Wally, the shop owner worked the film advance and tripped the shutter a few times....
he too seemed to love the camera, right there in front of me!
He turned to the old German guy at the work bench behind him, Klaus, and said, feel this....
That one was special, it went all the way to 1/1000 (I changed out the shutter speed selector knob)....

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2018

BradS said:
Hmmm, well.... I've gone though my entire inventory of cameras and, not counting the pinhole cameras,
only the Crown Graphic, Franka Rolfix Jr. and Leica iiif fit the criteria....
Curiously, all of these were made in 1951~1952 ?!?!?
The Crown Graphic is my favorite of the three, by a very wide margin.

(EDIT: just realized that only one of these is a 35mm camera...so, the little Leica, I guess, by default).

I had an Honeywell Pentax H1a. Loved it. I carried it everywhere, even dirt biking in the Mojave (desert).
I took it in to a local (back in the late 1990's) shop to have it overhauled.
Wally, the shop owner worked the film advance and tripped the shutter a few times....
he too seemed to love the camera, right there in front of me!
He turned to the old German guy at the work bench behind him, Klaus, and said, feel this....
That one was special, it went all the way to 1/1000 (I changed out the shutter speed selector knob)....

I think the consesus is that mf and even lf are allowed, I hadn't really thought things through when I started this thread.
I got my H1a sort of by accident, it was pretty grubby, jammed with the mirror up & shutter untrpped most times & when the shutter did go, it capped at all speeds over the synch speed.
Cleaning & lubricating solved all the problems, an old Auto Takumar 55/2.2 showed up at the dump, and now I had the m42 disease. Really great camera, handles as if it is smaller, smooth, etc. Since then Ive found a $2 SPF with 55/1.8, and the camera fairy brought a SP1000, 55/2, a Practika LTL3 in GRO, and some Mamiya Sekors in various states of dysfunction but one nice lens, the Auto Sekor 55/1.8 small, nice iq, matches the H1a nicely without having to cock the auto diaphragm every frame.
Edit - the unmarked notch on the speed dial times at a reliable 1/700 sec. on my H1a.

oreston · Apr 7, 2018

Bill Burk said:
I’ve decided it has to be the Spotmatic F. (See long-winded explanation in the other thread). Because its lens mount has the lathe cut for the SMCT pin.

When I take out the battery it will become my simple camera.

I can’t have an SL after all.

Not sure I understand. The SMC Takumars were designed to be backwards compatible and can be used on most M42 bodies (certainly the meterless Pentax SL, SV, S1a etc. as well as the metered SP and SP II). All the extra pin does is disable the lens' auto/manual switch when it's mounted on a Spotmatic F or ES to prevent you accidentally metering in stopped down mode on those open aperture metering bodies. If you mount the same lens on any other camera (ie one that doesn't have what you call the "lathe cut") the spring loaded pin is depressed by the mount, enabling the auto/manual switch to function as normal for DoF previewing. So you could use an SMC lens without restriction on many meterless M42 bodies. I just tested my Super-Multi-Coated 55/1.8 on a 1950s Pentacon F. No problem at all. OK, that poor camera has cracked shutter curtains and a degraded prism, but at least it still fires.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2018

oreston said:
Not sure I understand. The SMC Takumars were designed to be backwards compatible and can be used on most M42 bodies (certainly the meterless Pentax SL, SV, S1a etc. as well as the metered SP and SP II). All the extra pin does is disable the lens' auto/manual switch when it's mounted on a Spotmatic F or ES to prevent you accidentally metering in stopped down mode on those open aperture metering bodies. If you mount the same lens on any other camera (ie one that doesn't have what you call the "lathe cut") the spring loaded pin is depressed by the mount, enabling the auto/manual switch to function as normal for DoF previewing. So you could use an SMC lens without restriction on many meterless M42 bodies. I just tested my Super-Multi-Coated 55/1.8 on a 1950s Pentacon F. No problem at all. OK, that poor camera has cracked shutter curtains and a degraded prism, but at least it still fires

I don't understand either, the viewfinder dims if the slider is on M and you stop the lens down, wouldn't that be a rather large clue something is wrong??

Bill Burk · Apr 7, 2018

Function of the backwards and forwards compatibility is absolutely one of the finest feats of Pentax engineering.

But it’s a real bear when the lens is in Manual when you put it on the F or ESII and don’t notice it.

Relatively speaking, the finder of Pentax M42 is dimmer than others, for example OM-1.

Also I might be mounting my SMCT 24mm f/3.5 which is dimmer to start with.

By the way, there’s a couple of these on eBay for around $130-160 and it’s a very good lens to add to your minimal camera.

Bill Burk · Apr 7, 2018

And I have heard the screw holes on the M42 mount of a Zenit are in an unfortunate position and can catch the pin... effectively locking lens to the body.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2018

I'

Bill Burk said:
Function of the backwards and forwards compatibility is absolutely one of the finest feats of Pentax engineering.

But it’s a real bear when the lens is in Manual when you put it on the F or ESII and don’t notice it.

Relatively speaking, the finder of Pentax M42 is dimmer than others, for example OM-1.

Also I might be mounting my SMCT 24mm f/3.5 which is dimmer to start with.

By the way, there’s a couple of these on eBay for around $130-160 and it’s a very good lens to add to your minimal camera.

I'm starting to think that perhaps multicoating isn't minimal, either...

oreston · Apr 7, 2018

Bill Burk said:
And I have heard the screw holes on the M42 mount of a Zenit are in an unfortunate position and can catch the pin... effectively locking lens to the body.

I don't have a Zenit body but, yes, I can imagine how that could conceivably happen - a dastardly Soviet plot to entrap Western lenses

oreston · Apr 7, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
I'

I'm starting to think that perhaps multicoating isn't minimal, either...

Is lens cross-compatibility an essential part of the "minimal 35" criteria? I thought it was simply about identifying one lens and one (unmetered) body.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2018

oreston said:
Is lens cross-compatibility an essential part of the "minimal 35" criteria? I thought it was simply about identifying one lens and one (unmetered) body.

No, minimal means bare essentials - no meter, preferably no selftimer, (although some cameras use the timer for long timed shutter speeds) kind of photographic bare bones, but still very capable. Intercangeable lenses ok, the current cutoff point seems to be a Nikon F2 with unmetered prism and no other added goodies - "minimal mode" for a system camera. I didn't think this through very thoroughly, so it's still evolving.

blockend · Apr 7, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
No, minimal means bare essentials - no meter, preferably no selftimer, (although some cameras use the timer for long timed shutter speeds) kind of photographic bare bones, but still very capable. Intercangeable lenses ok, the current cutoff point seems to be a Nikon F2 with unmetered prism and no other added goodies - "minimal mode" for a system camera. I didn't think this through very thoroughly, so it's still evolving.

To be consistent exclude auto stop down lenses and return mirror. Extra point for a cold shoe or better yet, no flash shoe.

E. von Hoegh · Apr 7, 2018

blockend said:
To be consistent exclude auto stop down lenses and return mirror. Extra point for a cold shoe or better yet, no flash shoe.

I see your point, however the camera which inspired this thread has a semi-auto diaphragm lens, instant return mirror, but no shoe. I'd have to replace my Exakta to comply.

Bill Burk · Apr 7, 2018

Well I beat down my F vs SL argument.

The Pentax SL ticks all my necessary features requirements. The 35mm f/2 Super Takumar with 67mm filter thread is my lens.

These features exceed the minimum... but add value to operation that I want in an SLR.

- f/2 or brighter lens
- Automatic aperture vs pre-set yeccch
- Self-timer for tripod mounted shots with no vibration (from jerking cable release)
- Automatically cocking shutter when winding film
- Auto reset film counter
- Double-exposure prevention
- Microprism focus screen (or split if you prefer)
- Single dial shutter speed setting, speeds 1 to 1/1000 second, where 1 is close (doesn’t have to be perfect a-la quartz), and 1/1000 doesn’t cap.
- Uncluttered finder
- Lever winding with one smooth stroke
- 1:1 finder when 50mm lens mounted

Bill Burk · Apr 7, 2018

Oh yeah
- Instant return mirror
- Hot shoe (I don’t think SL has this)
- Full mechanical shutter no features battery dependent

Minimal 35s

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