Mini with manual?

madsox · Jul 10, 2023

I have an odd thing I want to find - a small (like, miniature) digital camera that has some usable manual exposure controls. To make a film parallel, something a bit like the old Minolta 110 zooms were: aperture priority, pocket-sized although an odd form factor, pretty versatile compared to other cameras the same size. I got started looking at those for some reason, then realized that if I was going to buy a "carry around in place of the phone" camera it should be digital.

Now I wonder if such a beast actually exists. It doesn't need to be current, might just be one of the point and shoots (sensor size not important for this concept). But let's see what the Photrio brain trust can come up with. I'll wander the internet and see if anything jogs my memory, of course. Which are the oddball cameras to look for?

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 10, 2023

You're describing just about every fixed-lens consumer digital camera since 1999, so it's hard to narrow down the field. Many are as small or smaller than 35mm equivalent. The defacto modern example is probably the Sony RX100 series.

My favorites are various Nikons (1, A, S01, P340) with an honorable mention to the Canon A590IS. For film, a Canon Dial 35 is an ideal snapshotter with shutter priority and spring film advance without going down to 16mm/110 film.

Edit: If by "usable manual exposure control" you mean actual physical control knobs and not menu settings, that seems to be one of Fuji's specialties in the digital realm but I'm not sure they offer anything smaller than APS-C.

Edit 2: The new Canon V10 has an odd form factor and minimalist design but I can't speak to it's cost/performance ratio. It could be decent if they make use of the entire 1" sensor. As an alternative, take a look at a Nikon J5 paired with the 10mm F2.8.

madsox · Jul 10, 2023

Bronson Dugnutt said:
Edit: If by "usable manual exposure control" you mean actual physical control knobs and not menu settings, that seems to be one of Fuji's specialties in the digital realm but I'm not sure they offer anything smaller than APS-C.

This (a physical control for aperture) is what I'm wondering about. Ideally, I'd find a miniature replica of an old school SLR, with a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring (or dial), just set one or the other to automatic and go Tv or Av mode, as it were.

For comparison, I do have a Canon G9 that *almost* fits the bill - it has no dedicated control for the aperture, etc., but it does get close in the right mode. If I can get a little smaller, and honestly a little less feature-filled...

Bronson Dugnutt said:
Edit 2: The new Canon V10 has an odd form factor and minimalist design but I can't speak to it's cost/performance ratio. It could be decent if they make use of the entire 1" sensor. As an alternative, take a look at a Nikon J5 paired with the 10mm F2.8.

I'll have to take a look at that. I generally like minimalist.

Thanks!

Bronson Dugnutt · Jul 10, 2023

madsox said:
This (a physical control for aperture) is what I'm wondering about. Ideally, I'd find a miniature replica of an old school SLR, with a shutter speed dial and an aperture ring (or dial), just set one or the other to automatic and go Tv or Av mode, as it were.

Many cameras offer this functionality whether through a rear wheel or one or more thumbwheels. Its a matter of finding the right combination of ergonomics, features and performance. The aforementioned P340 has a mode dial (P, A, S, M, et al), power zoom switch, programable front ring, a thumb wheel and rear dial for manipulating exposure settings in the various modes. Another consideration is that the P340 (and many other cameras of this class) offer a rear LCD screen only - no OVF or EVF.

To emphasize the miniature angle, the Pentax Q system handles like a modern digital system and is exceedingly tiny. But quite old technology at this point.

xkaes · Jul 10, 2023

madsox said:
... a small (like, miniature) digital camera that has some usable manual exposure controls.

That's the key phrase: some usable manual exposure controls.

Depends on what "SOME" means to you. If that means "just a little" there are tons that offer +/- adjustment, there are tons. Lots let you turn off the flash, but others not. If you mean adjusting the ISO, some drop out. If you mean choosing the f-stop or shutter speed, for example, the field narrows again.

And, as usual, the ones with more control either cost more or are larger or both.

You need to be specific about what control you want.

xkaes · Jul 10, 2023

Bronson Dugnutt said:
To emphasize the miniature angle, the Pentax Q system handles like a modern digital system and is exceedingly tiny.

However not "...something a bit like the old Minolta 110 zooms..."

4season · Jul 10, 2023

madsox said:
I have an odd thing I want to find - a small (like, miniature) digital camera that has some usable manual exposure controls. To make a film parallel, something a bit like the old Minolta 110 zooms were: aperture priority, pocket-sized although an odd form factor, pretty versatile compared to other cameras the same size. I got started looking at those for some reason, then realized that if I was going to buy a "carry around in place of the phone" camera it should be digital.

Now I wonder if such a beast actually exists. It doesn't need to be current, might just be one of the point and shoots (sensor size not important for this concept). But let's see what the Photrio brain trust can come up with. I'll wander the internet and see if anything jogs my memory, of course. Which are the oddball cameras to look for?

Realistically, I think for sensor sizes 1" and smaller (includes Sony RX100-series), the path of least resistance is to set camera to "P" mode, and dial in exposure compensation as needed. Which pretty much every small camera will allow you to do. Until you get into the macro range, you're going to get a lot of DoF at all apertures, whether you want it or not, due to very short focal length optics (actual, not "equivalent") which are typically used.

Ricoh GR (APS-C models, dunno about earlier small-sensor variants) has a very interesting "snapshot" feature: It's designed so that in a rushed situation where you can't wait for the autofocus to do it's thing, it can be configured to ignore AF, and snap to a focus distance of your choosing. It also works very well in aperture-priority mode.

MattKing · Jul 10, 2023

How about an early M4/3 Olympus Pen?

jeffreyg · Jul 10, 2023

Check out the Panasonic ZS100. It has a number of modes including manual and a Leica lens. It can fit in a pocket. I’ve had one for several years. I mostly use the aperture mode More features than you will ever need

xkaes · Jul 10, 2023

The smaller the sensor size, the smaller the camera and lens can be. For example the Canon Powershot 810 has a pretty small sensor and size and has 10-20MP.

My Minolta a2 has a sensor size of only 8.8x6.6mm -- smaller than Minox 11x8mm -- but packs a wollop. However, the camera itself is enormous relative to the sensor size because it packs so much in the body.

Perhaps if you start by looking at cameras with TINY sensors, you might discover what you want.

L Gebhardt · Jul 11, 2023

The Sony RX100 line is about as small as I wanted to go. It’s a really good camera, but not at all like the Minolta 110. I wouldn’t want to carry the Minolta with me everywhere.

madsox · Jul 11, 2023

Some good ideas here, thank you all - it's hard to find anything much smaller than the Canon G9 I do have and keep the funcitonality I want. But the Olympus Pen (I remember wanting one of those a lot when they were new!) and a few others here, the Cybershot and Coolpix models, the Ricoh GR, are all possible. They seem to be a bit more pocketable than my Canon, with the ability to switch them to A or S mode and control things a little.

Thinking about it, and with y'all's feedback, I don't expect to use a pocket camera for carefully composed, precisely metered Zone system shooting. That's when you go get the "real" camera. For this exercise, I'm looking for something I can adjust a little more easily then the camera on the phone.

xkaes · Jul 11, 2023

The Sony RX100 (and similar) is great in terms of quality because it has a large sensor, but it's small, with a zoom lens, and not cheap. Control? It offers +/- 3 EV. At the other end are cameras like the Nikon Coolpix 5600 -- which you appear familiar with. The 5600 has a much smaller sensor and MP, but is very inexpensive, pocketable, uses AA batteries, built-in flash, zoom lens with zooming viewfinder, and some control of the exposure -- like two f-stops & EV adjustment.
MAYBE there's a website out there that compares the features of the smallest digital cameras -- from the SONY U-series on up. If you find one, let us know.

Auer · Jul 28, 2023

I carry my RX100 around in A mode, and use the lens ring to quickly set the aperture for whatever is needed.

Easy to use and carry, great cameras.

Auer · Jul 28, 2023

xkaes said:
The Sony RX100 (and similar) is great in terms of quality because it has a large sensor, but it's small, with a zoom lens, and not cheap. Control? It offers +/- 3 EV. At the other end are cameras like the Nikon Coolpix 5600 -- which you appear familiar with. The 5600 has a much smaller sensor and MP, but is very inexpensive, pocketable, uses AA batteries, built-in flash, zoom lens with zooming viewfinder, and some control of the exposure -- like two f-stops & EV adjustment.
MAYBE there's a website out there that compares the features of the smallest digital cameras -- from the SONY U-series on up. If you find one, let us know.

RX 100 has a 1" sensor. So smaller than the APS-C of the GRIII for example.

But it is a very usable high quality camera that produces excellent images.

Mini with manual?

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