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- Apr 30, 2007
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Ian, where did you find that formula? I don`t recall seeing that formula before.A recommended substitute for Perceptol / Microdol-X is:
D25 - with added NaCl
Metol 7.5g
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous 100g
Sodium Metabisulphite (Bisulphite) 5g
Sodium Chloride 30g
Water to 1 litre
I should add I haven't tried this developer, but I'm told it does work well.
This is the correct formula Jim, I've had it from way before the Film Developing Cookbook came out.
Ian
PPD is a nasty substance that needs to be treated with a lot of respect. Any time I use it in powder form I wear protective eye wear, nitrile gloves, rubber apron, and a bio filter face mask. I do NOT want to breathe the dust. I'm afraid of it, and try to work with it outdoors if the conditions allow
Grant Haist was working on an entirely different system, devised especially to deal with the structure of tabular grain films, which has never been explored outside his own darkroom. And no, I don't have a formula!
Kodak`s recommended developers for TMY-2 are in bold type in their fact-sheet. Both Microdol-X even when diluted 1:3 along with HC-110 Dilution B are cited as only acheiving E.I.320, so it seems that those two developers aren`t quite capable of maintaining the box speed with that particular film, although they are otherwise OK. Nice to read that you had good results with the Edgar Hyman formula.Ive experimented a little with Edgar Hymans Microdol substitute, generally at a 1+3 dilution, and had no problems with dichroic fog.
The FDCB p.70 claims no speed loss for the 1+3 dilution. I suspect this is an exaggeration, based on the fact it isnt as great as for the undiluted stock. Kodaks 1970s J-1 booklet, Processing Chemicals and Formulas for Black and White Photography, p. 27 seems to go the other way but may have been oversimplified in the editing process when it states The stock solution can be diluted 1:3, in which case greater sharpness can be attained, with a slight sacrifice of quality in grain characteristics and a loss in film speed. Kodaks current Microdol PDF J-4027 (November 2003) doesnt mention any speed loss at all; it says: For greater sharpness, but with a slight increase in graininess, you can use a 1:3 dilution of this developer. However if you cross reference their new current information sheet for the new T-Max 400, Kodak advocates ASA/ISO 200 for Microdol-X and 320 (down a third of a stop from the nominal EI of 400) for the 1+3 dilution so, there must still be some speed loss with their very precise testing.
I was just curious where you read it. Thanks Ian.Keith, I've had that particular formula since the mid 70's, I'm not sure where it came from originally, I employed a consultant at that time who lent me various books including Glafkides, he had a wealth of information, his mother was French & from the Lumiere family (the company was by then part of Ciba Geigy).
There's probably been more than one formula for Microdol-X over the years, since it's introduction. One MSDS shows the liquid version containing Sodium Citrate, and I've seen another MSDS with (meta)Bisulpite in it. As I said I've tried that formula now, it works well with no trace of Dichroic fog, but as the Metabisulphite breaks down with age that might change.
However like Don Cardwell, Thomas etc I personally think that PPD/Colour developing agents have been neglected in recent years and that there's greater potential going down that avenue, the combinations of PPD/Glycin and Meritol (PPD/Pyrocatechin) have eproduced some outstanding commercial developers, then there's the PPD/Metol/Glycin devs and instead of Metol you can use Phenidone or Dimezone.
As Robert says there are less toxic alternatives to PPD free base. But women use PPD all the time in hair dyesThey smell like colour developer too
Ian
AFAIK, ID-11+ was only available in the U.S, so I never tried it.1, Keith, re ID-11+, I can't imagine it had cinnamic acid per se - - wouldn't a perfumey smell would have been apparent? When it came out, Bob Schwalberg did a fairly rigorous image quality test in Popular Photography - - that might be worth looking up. Crawley too examined the weight of Microdol packages, but came to the incorrect conclusion that more sulfite was being used. However, his two Microdol substitutes are ingenious nonetheless.
2, In FDC2, I'll confirm the original antistain agent in MX, but this has since been changed and I could at least hint at what some replacements have been. And if there's no FDC2, I'll publish it here, but surely I can be allowed to hold a few cards up my sleeve until we know what we're doing?
3, It's interesting that many of these older solvent developers can be used successfully today, and Robert's work confirms precisely what Crawley noted as being claimed for the pre-war physical development processes: 'exceptional preservation of subject tones' (I am quoting from memory here). That's exactly what it's all about, though the issue has hardly been decisively proved scientifically. Rationally, it doesn't seem possible, but Robert is demonstrating it here and now.
4, In the quest for the best possible compromise between grain, speed, and sharpness, I do think the EK colour people were ahead of the b/w teams, and I am looking forward to Ron's being able to publish, sometime in the future, some of what he learnt.
In FDC2, I'll confirm the original antistain agent in MX, but this has since been changed and I could at least hint at what some replacements have been. And if there's no FDC2, I'll publish it here [...]
look into having printed on demand, like at lulu.com
One of the things I am concerned about is the use of staining developers. It is a fact that the dyes that form the stain will fade with time. No one has done a study on this AFAIK, and I wonder what effect it has on the image quality of the prints made as a function of the fading process.
Or, does anyone care?
PE
One of the things I am concerned about is the use of staining developers. It is a fact that the dyes that form the stain will fade with time. No one has done a study on this AFAIK, and I wonder what effect it has on the image quality of the prints made as a function of the fading process.
Or, does anyone care?
PE
Are any of these actually suitable for processing regular B&W films (not chromagenic types)? I read some where that C-41 developer gave very good results with Kodak Technical Pan when it was still available, with E.I. 32 effective speed and excellent image fidelity. Normal B&W stop-bath and fixer of course. Grain might have been even finer than the Technidol developer IIRC.PPDs generally are not considered to be classic staining developers. But if they do, the dyes they form will be subject to fade. This is inevitable. After all, the struggle in color has been to get stable PPD dyes for the last 75 years.
PE
Thanks P.E. I look forward to trying your RONinal when it becomes available.Keith;
As Bill said in his post earlier, Kodak color developer design had advanced very far compared to B&W developer design due to the number of engineers assigned to the projects. OTOH, the B&W designs that were under way were never released due to a declining market. The entire scenario involved a problem of two facets that denied "you" some B&W developer advantages.
Therefore, I could design a purely B&W developer that surpassed a color developer or a color developer that, used for B&W, equalled or surpassed any current purely B&W developer.
So, the answer to your question is a qualified "yes".
PE
In relation to developing black & white tabular grain films?
Tom.
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