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Microdol X preserving experiment

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Mike Wilde

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I love the look I get from Microdol X and Plus X, or FP4 when I shoot 35mm. I know that there is no real reason that these films don't look great with other capable developers, and just put it down to some sort of emotional attachment to good subjects that I have processed in this combination in the past. I don;t usually use it for 120 or larger formats, where the fine grain behaviour is not as important to me.

Some times I will use it 1:3 one shot, and sometimes straight stock solution one shot, but I have also had very good sucess with using it straight and replenshed, per Kodak's rates. I also replenish a Harveys 777 varaint and it works well for me also; otherwise I am usually a one shot processor.

Alas, I have got the feeling that Microdol X is not long for more production, if it is not gone already. So when the chance to buy a gallon package packed in the foil/plastic under paper packaging at a camera show for $4 came up last year, I bought it.

The thing is, I don't use it nearly fast enough to get though the gallon before it poops out used or unused.

So I got to thinking about some of Pat Gainers developer ideas I read up on a few years ago, like PC-TEA, where the developing agents are dissolved in other than water. I have also used propylene glycol as a dissolving agent (for a 10% phenidone solution most often).

A mad experiment idea thus began to form in my brain. Perhaps if I could dissolve the developing agents out of the solution, to create a concentrate that would not oxidize off as in the way that it would if it were dissulved in water as a solute.

I warmed about 700mL of propylene glycol to above 130F in a stainless steel mixing vessel, on a heated magnetic stirrer, and added the full package of the chemicals, that otherwise normally call for starting with 3.3l of hot water.

As might be expected, it quickly got very thick,and stiff to stir. When the stirrer was turned off, the sulfite crystals , and maybe the chloride crystals as well, would settle to the bottom, and not go into solution. If any sulfite got into this glyol, it formeda saturated solution, so no more would dissolve. The glycol by this stage had a light tan colour, as microdol looks when it is mixed normally.

I poured the supernatant liquid off into a beaker, trying not to take too many sulfite crystals along with the liquid.

I then added batches of 130F hot water to the mixer, and stirred until no more sulfite would dissolve. I poured this saturated sulfite solution off, and then would add more hot water, and dissolve more crystals. No sign of the brown developer oxidising action appeared in the water dissolve stages.

After 3 runs of this, there was a bit more than 2 L of saturated sulfte/ chloride solution.

I transferred off the supernatant from the beaker to a 500mL storage jar, and then rinsed the settled sulfite sludge off the bottom of the beaker by adding more hot water, gently corking it, and shaking it.

This water was added to the other sulfite solution. The total volume of the sulfite solution was raised to 2.5L, from 2.2l in the hope that the sulfite would not recrystalize as the solution cooled. This morning there is no sign of sulfite in the bottom of either container, and so I guess this worked.

So now to make up a stock 500mL of microdol-x solution, you take 330mL of the sulfite solution, add 70mL of the propylene glycol solution containing mostly the developing agents, and add water to 500mL.

This now 'working solution' is good for processing 2-36 exposure rolls of 35mm film, before replenishment, and three rounds of 16mL of replenisher, before the restrainer byproducts of development build up too high.

The working solution then must be discarded after it is exhausted, or four months after it was mixed. A new workig solution can then be mixed up when the time comes to process more films.

By these means, I hope to stretch the life of what may be my last of the Kodak Microdol X for a few years to come. It also has raised the bar for my plans in terms of brewing up developers that can hang around for long times in thier A and B solutions, before calling on them to develop film. I have stock of PMK, that is still good two years after mixing, but I am not a pyro fan for al films that I shoot.
 
In "The Film Developing Cookbook", Anchell & Troop have a substitute formual for MX that you can make by the liter. You should be able to go thru a liter much faster than a gallon.

You can also try Ilford's Perceptol. IIRC, it's still made in 1 liter packages.
 
Why do you think it will soon be out of production? Kodak still lists it as a product. Perceptol is, of course, an almost exact clone in use.
 
Microdol-X is cheap and easy to obtain. Why do you think that it will be unobtainable?
 
the way that b&w was drying up when I bought that gallon pack. Tri-x bulk was out of stock for months at the time, and the word that they had dropped all b&w papers was not long in the past then either.

I guessed that it would soon only be tmax 100 and tmax 400, xtol, and d-76 before long, back then. Fortunately things appear to have stabilised on the Kodak front at the moment, film wise. .
 
If your supplier was out of Tri-X for months at a time, you need a new supplier. As for Microdol-X, I would be very surprised if Kodak dropped it. Even if they did, all you would need to do is to substitute Perceptol.
 
The mad experiment continues.

The developer lost some of it's developing umph in the initial mix into glycol and separation out of the sulfite into a separate stock solution. I calibrated film development times for 125 speed and 400 speed conventional flim when fresh.

Now, six months later, I drew off the stock glycol and stock sulfite mixtures and mixed a fresh litre of working strength Microdol X w/glycol, as I think of it , and it is still as active as it was some six months ago. Still have enouigh stock on hand for about another 4L of working developer.

I am thinking of extending the idea into the A stock component of mix from scratch Lith developers. They are usally low in sulfite, but high in HQ and bromide, which I hate to see die off, if I have not run enough Lith film after mixing the stock solutions.
 
December '09: Kodak has discontinued Microdol, though lots of stock is still available - I ordered 10 1-gallon bags.

Kodak discontinued Microdol years ago, I still have a few packets in the UK that date back to the 60's.

I think you mean Microdol-X, but Ilford's equivalent Perceptol is still available.

It's easy to make a replacement up for yourself, the over hyped anti-oxidants that supposedly prevented Dichroic fog aren't needed with modern films and are irrelevant.

Ian
 
I think you mean Microdol-X, but Ilford's equivalent Perceptol is still available.

It's easy to make a replacement up for yourself, the over hyped anti-oxidants that supposedly prevented Dichroic fog aren't needed with modern films and are irrelevant.

Ian
I had considered experimenting with D-23 and DK-25R by adding an equal amount of sodium chloride to each, but decided to stick with D-76. Perhaps I will one day, just for fun.
 
I tried for fun back in April, and the devs worked extremely well as expected, but the loss of film speed isn't really worth it and with modern films like Tmax & Delta with their inherent fine grain the advantages are far less significant than when I first used Perceptol and Microdol-X in the late 60's with old style emulsions like Tr-X, FP3 and HP3.

ian
 
Gosh, there are millions of cans of Microdol-X out there (I think I have enough Microdol-X to float a large-ish boat !)

But Perceptol is the very same stuff.

Have no fear about TX & PX. They made the conversion years ago to the new coating line and won't go away.

Umm, Mike, what is your 777 variation ?
 
I tried for fun back in April, and the devs worked extremely well as expected, but the loss of film speed isn't really worth it.

Ian
I have been thinking along similar lines as even the conventional films I use are fine-grained enough to satisfy me. Do we really need extra fine-grain developers any more?
Personally, I think it is better to have a developer which saves speed well, while providing good grain shape (not soft or mushy) without emphasising it too much.
If finer grain and smoother tonality is required, a larger film format is well worth considering.
 
Personally, I think it is better to have a developer which saves speed well, while providing good grain shape (not soft or mushy) without emphasising it too much.
If finer grain and smoother tonality is required, a larger film format is well worth considering.

I've been thinking along those line for quite some time now, and haven't used Microdol-X in ages. Even before the latest incarnation of Tri-X, excessive grain, even from that film in 35mm format, long ago ceased to be a real concern. On the subject of better tonality, a move up in film gauge will provide a vast improvement over anything you can do with 35mm.
 
Well, as a reborn Edwal 12 user, which is a full speed, sharp developer, with finer grain than Microdol-X EVER got,
my Leica now makes grainless 16x20s from TMY2.

And, yes, I KNOW what I just said. The look is of TXP (or a classic portrait film), and superb tonality.

And E-12 is not so bad with 4x5 TMY2.

It is just a different look, and a lovely one. No magic, just a neat combination.
 
Umm, Mike, what is your 777 variation ?

Pasted from Unblinking Eye - search for Harveys 777 discussions

Germain Fine Grain Formula

Distilled water (125° F)
700 ml

Metol
7.0 g

Sodium sulfite
70.0 g

Paraphenylene Diamine (base)
7.0 g

Glycin
7.0 g

Cold distilled water to make
1 liter

Use without dilution. Replenish with same formula.
 
Mike

The formula you have is Germain's developer,
which is a personalized variation of Dr. Edmund Lowe's published Edwal 12 formula.


Edwal 12 is: Metol: 6; Sulfite: 90; PPD: 10; Glycin: 5.

Morris Germain (in the tradition of self promoting photographers)
took Lowe's published variations of E-12 and fudged a little,
and proclaimed it as his own.

Harvey's 777 is not remotely close to Germain's in composition or performance.
It is contrastier, not as finely grained, and gives a lower EI.
Besides, a package of 777
contains about twice the weight of ingredients as E12 or Germain's.

777 is a good developer, but the speculation from the discussions led folks astray.

Anyway.
I'm collecting user's experience with E-12 (to balance my own)
in order to write a short introduction to Lowe's formula.
Germain's users are more than welcome, I want to collect methods and results
to share with the APUG community.
Please send me a PM if you'd care to be involved !

Thanks,

Don
 
They really ought to delete that stuff; I found it once, too. I can't remember who it was who noticed that Germain's formula used seven parts of each of three constituents and made the wild guess that it added up to "777". I don't think there is any evidence that it is the same or even similar to Harvey's. It looks a lot like Edwal 12 to me. I mixed some Germain's once; it is really good, but when some of us started exploring E12, I just switched to it.

I think if you read some of those discussions, you will find reference to Edwal 12 - one of the discussants suggested that "back in the day" he and his cohorts used 777 for certain things and Edwal 12 for everything else, and that the two had quite different qualities. E12 and Germain's don't have very different qualities; there'd be no real reason to use Germain's for one kind of light and E12 for the other since they are basically the same.

Edit: Looks like Don and I were writing at the same time.
 
I've been thinking along those line for quite some time now, and haven't used Microdol-X in ages. Even before the latest incarnation of Tri-X, excessive grain, even from that film in 35mm format, long ago ceased to be a real concern. On the subject of better tonality, a move up in film gauge will provide a vast improvement over anything you can do with 35mm.
I agree, I find the grain, sharpness and tonality of films like FP4 Plus at box speed, developed in D-76 1:1 very satisfactory in 35mm.
The same film along with HP5 Plus in medium-format provides lovely results.
What I do like about developers like Microdol-X and Perceptol though, is the way that they help to prevent high contrast negatives, rather than their extra fine-grain properties, without giving flat gradation unlike two-bath developers which I find tonally awful.
 
I also sometimes do existing light work with models, shooting 35mm film cameras under the shade of trees, etc to act as a contrast control measure.

In these circumstances, my image framing in the camera is not always perfect. Then I find myself printing to get an 8x10 with half of the area of the negative. That is why I resort to Microdol X. For wilderness canoeing, etc, doing landscapes with 35mm I usually develop in d76 1;1 or if t grained film, fx37 1:3.

I have been complimented by one 8x10 head shot type print of an actor print hanging in the basement, on the 'pathway' to the darkroom. Dave White was quite surprised that I had pulled off the image quality the print shows using 35mm film. Plus X in Microdol X was my reply.

As I said earlier, I am emotionally drawn to this developer, as it was the first one I mastered the look of for a better look for protraits back in high school, when all the camera club free film pool was fed with bulk loaded HP5, and the standard developer in the communal jug was D76.
 
How long will Microdol X keep in powder form? I also got a hold of some in a can and some Perceptol. How long will these items be good without being mixed?
 
I depends. I have never seen a can of Microdol x. I have cans of D19 from 1965, with the hq and metol in a small plastic envelope separate with a wee bit of sulfite inside the can. If that is the case, then it might last a long time.
 
The can is actually just Microdol, I think.
 
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