Microdol-X powder

tjaded · Nov 8, 2006

I saw somewhere that Kodak is having another company deal with the chemistry part of the business...I also heard that Microdol-X might be on the way out. Has anyone heard this? Should I go buy up every bag of it I can find? I'm hoping it's just another mistake, I cannot imagine it would cost Kodak too much to keep powdered chemicals in the market.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 8, 2006

Microdol-X will keep for years in its dry powder form. I would not stockpile it myself - given the Kodak recipe, any competent chemist can mix it from the component chemicals.

Kodak D-76 and Kodak D-23 produce results that are very similar to those produced by Microdol-X. The formulas for Kodak D-23 and Kodak D-76 are posted in the APUG Chemical Recipes section

In addition, Ilford markets a very similar developer - Ilford Perceptol.

jim appleyard · Nov 8, 2006

There is also a homebrew version in Anchell & Troop's "The Film Dev. Cookbook". I wouldn't stockpile it when it's easy to buy Perceptol or make your own from scratch.

tjaded · Nov 8, 2006

I haven't tried D-23, but I wouldn't really put Microdol-X and D-76 in the similar category. I was just wondering if anyone else has heard anything to the story of Microdol-X going away...

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 8, 2006

tjaded said:
I haven't tried D-23, but I wouldn't really put Microdol-X and D-76 in the similar category.

I've used and tested all three of these developers with various Kodak and Ilford B&W Films. In my opinion all 3 of these Kodak developers are capable of producing very similar results.

frugal · Nov 9, 2006

Well I have several packages of microdol-x in my basement so I guess I should hold onto them for a bit and then make a killing on ebay

pnance · Nov 9, 2006

In my experience, the new Kodak bags do not store Microdol-X very well, I have had several go bellyup. (Dark crystal formations that mix into a dark solution that I wouldn't dip film into). On the other hand I have some Microdol-X in cans that of course are much older, and they have all mixed up well, and I have only one left!

As to the Microdol-X formula, I have'nt seen it anywhere, I have only seen formulas that are supposed to be like Microdol-X but don't seem to be anything like them. Microdol-X has sodium chloride in it.

And while Microdol-X may only be D-23 with sodium chloride and some mysterious sequestering compound, how much NaCl and what sequestering agent?

I've only been using it for 40 years or so.

jim appleyard · Nov 9, 2006

pnance said:
And while Microdol-X may only be D-23 with sodium chloride and some mysterious sequestering compound, how much NaCl and what sequestering agent?

QUOTE]

No sequestering agent and 30g of NaCl, according to the formula in Anchell/Troop. I've used it and it's good. I did not compare to the authentic Mic-X. This may just be D-23 with salt, I don't have my notes in fron of me. However, IIRC, salt is supposed to give fine grain w/o a large speed penalty.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 9, 2006

pnance said:
In my experience, the new Kodak bags do not store Microdol-X very well, I have had several go bellyup. (Dark crystal formations that mix into a dark solution that I wouldn't dip film into). On the other hand I have some Microdol-X in cans that of course are much older, and they have all mixed up well, and I have only one left!

As to the Microdol-X formula, I have'nt seen it anywhere, I have only seen formulas that are supposed to be like Microdol-X but don't seem to be anything like them. Microdol-X has sodium chloride in it.

And while Microdol-X may only be D-23 with sodium chloride and some mysterious sequestering compound, how much NaCl and what sequestering agent?

I've only been using it for 40 years or so.

30 grams of sodium chloride sounds about right.

A fine grain Metol Sulfite developing solution containing common salt was proposed by Edgar Hyman. This formula was published on page 379 of the Fine Grain Developers Chapter in Volume I of Modern Photographic Processing (Grant Haist, 1979, John Wiley and Sons, New York).

In this same chapter, Haist also discusses Kodak D-76 (Capstaff 1926) and some of its Kodak variants and also discusses Kodak D-23 (Henn and Crabtree 1944) and Kodak D-25 (D-23 plus sodium metabisulfite).

Hyman’s Fine Grain Formula (1964):

Metol...................................5 grams
Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous...............100 grams
Common Salt (Sodium Chloride) ...........30 grams
Water to make............................1 liter

Less salt was said to give more grain but higher film speed. A modification for one-time use was also suggested. The developing solution is diluted with an equal amount of water. “Tri-X rated at 400 ASA was developed for 11 minutes at 68°F and said to give “finer grain than D-76.”

Additional discussion of the effects of sodium chloride on silver bromide and silver bromoiodide crystals can be found on pages 378 and 379 of Haist’s book together with this developer formula:

G.F. Van Veelen and W. Peelaers Low pH Metol/Sulfite Developer (1967)

Metol...................................2 grams
Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous...............2 grams
Sodium Chloride ........................2 grams or 100 grams
Sodium Diphosphate ....................10 grams
Water to make..........................1 liter

pH 7.0 or 8.5

Van Veelen and Peelaers observed that compact silver particles with a brownish tone were formed by this developer. They hypothesized that solution physical development was taking place.

I have not tried either of these developers.

jim appleyard · Nov 9, 2006

Tom Hoskinson Sodium Chloride ........................2 grams or 100 grams QUOTE said:
Tom, is this your own typo, a typo in the book or does it actually say "2 grams or 100 grams"?

Mic-X may very well be close to the formulas we've batted around here as it does leave a brownish stain to at least some films.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 10, 2006

jim appleyard said:
Tom Hoskinson Sodium Chloride ........................2 grams or 100 grams QUOTE said:

Tom, is this your own typo, a typo in the book or does it actually say "2 grams or 100 grams"?

Mic-X may very well be close to the formulas we've batted around here as it does leave a brownish stain to at least some films.

Click to expand...

Not my typo Jim - and I don't think it's a typo in Haist's book, since the text goes on to discuss the various speed and grain effects they observed when they increased and decreased the amount of sodium chloride in the developing solution.

BTW, my Plus-X, Panatomic-X and Pan F negs all showed a brown cast when developed in Microdol-X.

I'm tempted to mix up these two recipes from Haist and try them out.

jim appleyard · Nov 10, 2006

I guess it's an "add salt to taste" deal. If used a fair amount of the Anchell/Troop recipe, probably the Hyman formula, or close to it. Gave me good negs and is certainly economical and easy to mix. Anchell & Troop recommend that you use REAL NaCl and not table salt which contains iodine. I grabbed some Kosher (or was it canning?) salt from the grocery store.

You may wish to back off on your EI. I recall shooting TX at an EI of 200. I would imagine that 160 would work fine as well.

Arvee · Nov 10, 2006

Perceptol's added ingredients...

According to the MSDS info on the Perceptol containers, Perceptol contains 100% Metol in part A and sodium sulfite combined with sodium tripolyphosfate and sodium chloride in part B.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 10, 2006

Sodium Tripolyphosphate is a sequestrant/water softening agent. It makes mixing easier if your mixing water is "hard." If you are mixing with "soft water," distilled water or deionized water, the Sodium Tripolyphosphate is not needed.

Gerald Koch · Nov 10, 2006

jim appleyard said:
Mic-X may very well be close to the formulas we've batted around here as it does leave a brownish stain to at least some films.

When you say brown stain do you mean the color of the silver image? In order to see a brown stain you would have to bleach out the silver first. Fine grain developers often produce a brown silver image due to the size of the silver particles.

Rolleijoe · Nov 10, 2006

pnance said:
In my experience, the new Kodak bags do not store Microdol-X very well, I have had several go bellyup. (Dark crystal formations that mix into a dark solution that I wouldn't dip film into). On the other hand I have some Microdol-X in cans that of course are much older, and they have all mixed up well, and I have only one left!

I've only been using it for 40 years or so.

I've got about 6 or so sealed brown bottles left from a case I purchased in 97 or so. Haven't used any of it in a while.....just waiting for the right subject.

Have pretty much gone back to Rodinal now anyways.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 10, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
When you say brown stain do you mean the color of the silver image? In order to see a brown stain you would have to bleach out the silver first. Fine grain developers often produce a brown silver image due to the size of the silver particles.

Yes, the brown color I see after processing with Microdol-X I attribute to the silver particle size and shape characteristics post development - not to image staining or tanning. See Haist,
Modern Photographic Processing, volume 1 page 379

Gerald Koch · Nov 10, 2006

Tom Hoskinson said:
Yes, the brown color I see after processing with Microdol-X I attribute to the silver particle size and shape characteristics post development - not to image staining or tanning. See Haist,
Modern Photographic Processing, volume 1 page 379

That is what I suspected but was confused by the term "stain". Thanks for the clarification.

jim appleyard · Nov 10, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
When you say brown stain do you mean the color of the silver image? In order to see a brown stain you would have to bleach out the silver first. Fine grain developers often produce a brown silver image due to the size of the silver particles.

I'd guess it's the latter, but I'd have to dig out the negs and look.

Keith Tapscott. · Nov 11, 2006

Microdol-X & Perceptol MSDS.

The MSDS for Ilford Perceptol.
Part A: Metol developing agent.
Part B: Sodium Sulphite, Sodium Chloride and Sodium Tripolyphosphate.

The MSDS for Kodak Microdol-X.
Sodium Sulphite, Sodium Chloride, Elon, Boric Anhydride and Sodium Hexametaphosphate. This is sold as a single powder compound.

There may also be an anti-stain agent used in these developers.
Try a search for US Patent 3,161,513 (R.W. Henn.)

Phillip P. Dimor · Nov 11, 2006

The last time I saw (and bought) Microdol-X, it came in a boston brown glass lab bottle (NICE!). I used Plus-X with it for some portraits and it was fantastic. Unfortunately, I don't think this stuff is too popular (along with plus-x)

pnance · Nov 11, 2006

Sequestering agent was wrong words, I meant the anti-silvering agent.

Didn't Anchell & Troop suggest that a mercapto?? (like a benzotrizole) was used, and I read somewhere that it also could be an iodine, however the iodine in iodinizied salt was said to be three times more than needed. (How about 1/3 iodinized salt and 2/3 pure salt)

I've always felt my microdol-x negatives (at least while drying) had a purplish hue.

And thanks for all the great suggestions.

jim appleyard · Nov 11, 2006

Phillip P. Dimor said:
Unfortunately, I don't think this stuff is too popular (along with plus-x)

Until Kodak discontinues them. Suddenly, their popularity will soar and they automatically become the "best film and best dev!"

Gerald Koch · Nov 11, 2006

pnance said:
Sequestering agent was wrong words, I meant the anti-silvering agent.

Didn't Anchell & Troop suggest that a mercapto?? (like a benzotrizole) was used, and I read somewhere that it also could be an iodine, however the iodine in iodinizied salt was said to be three times more than needed. (How about 1/3 iodinized salt and 2/3 pure salt)

I've always felt my microdol-x negatives (at least while drying) had a purplish hue.

And thanks for all the great suggestions.

Benzotriole is not a mercaptan. I believe that you are thinking of 2-mercaptobenzothiazole. An iodide such as potassium iodide would not be used. There are many other compounds that can be used to prevent silver compounds from producing a sludge in used developers. Polyalcohols are often used to keep such compounds in solution. Of course, these compounds are not required if the developer is used as a one-shot.

Sodium chloride is used in Microdol-X and Perceptrol to produce finer grain. The mechanism for this is not fully understood.

tjaded · Nov 11, 2006

For what it's worth, Microdol-X has become my favorite developer...and it's still available! Given my track record of being King Midas in reverse, it should disappear any day now....

Microdol-X powder

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency