MG IV RC Satin Appearance

ChrisW · Apr 18, 2006

I just finished the last of my Kodak (liars) paper and have gone full Ilford chemistry and paper. As expected, I'm loving it. The FB paper in glossy form is exactly what I need, and produces great depth.

My problem is with the MG IV RC Satin finish paper. After spending $300 on two boxes of the 20x24, my prints appear two dimensional (stop laughing). The satin finish renders the image as to appear under frosted glass, almost like a inkjet print. Is this due to the Satin finish? My only reference is with Kodak (liars) paper in the semi-matte finish, which was good.

Before I drop another $150 on an experiment, should I expect the same flatness with the RC glossy and pearl? I realize a purchase of 8x10 in both surfaces would be less expensive, but the difference in image size would render the results moot. Plus, I don't have a use for 8x10 paper.

Thanks for any help on this.

Ian Grant · Apr 18, 2006

Chris, paper finish and base colour is an extremely personal preferance. Not sure what the Iford satin finish is like now, it's 30+ years since I used it.

Thinking back you are right the images I made on Ilfospeed Satin are very comparable to inkjet prints on the early high end (non photo) papers. There's nothing wrong with the paper, as I said it's a very personal choice of colour, texture etc.

You've learnt the hard way that it's important to trial a paper first before making more costly purchases of large sizes. That odd pack of 10x8 even only 25 sheets might save you from making a decision you regret. BTW the Ilford Pearl finish is excellent.

Flatness with RC papers shouldnt vary between Glossy and Pearl significantly.

Ian

ChrisW · Apr 19, 2006

Thanks Ian. I'll try a box of the glossy.

Chris

timeUnit · Apr 19, 2006

The Ilford RC glossy is especially ugly, IMHO. I would not recommend it to anyone, especially if you think the satin one is flat.

The best RC paper IMO is Fotokemika FinePrint Lustre. I'm not sure if it's avaliable where you are, but if it is, do yourself a favor and try it. It tones beautifully in selenium.

Simon R Galley · Apr 19, 2006

Dear Chris,

If you send me your address to my APUG e.mail I will send you an ILFORD Photo printed, surface swatch book FOC, please nobody else ask for one because they cost £ 7.00 each...especially TimeUnit..because he hurt my feelings and I will not send him one !.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

timeUnit · Apr 19, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Chris,

If you send me your address to my APUG e.mail I will send you an ILFORD Photo printed, surface swatch book FOC, please nobody else ask for one because they cost £ 7.00 each...especially TimeUnit..because he hurt my feelings and I will not send him one !.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Well, Simon, I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt. Maybe it'll encourage you to make better products!

Joking aside, I admit that I dislike all RC Glossy surfaces. But in my experience the Ilford RC papers do not tone well in selenium, and that's an extra drawback.

I use many Ilford products, and have gotten fond of the films especially. On the paper side I'm not convinced, though. I think Ilford papers in general are a bit bland.

ChrisW · Apr 19, 2006

Simon:
Your generosity is above and beyond. This is why Ilford enjoy a loyal following. Your products are of the highest standards, and we are lucky to have you contributing to the APUG community. I have emailed my address. Thank you.

As for timeUnit's comments, I think we can all agree paper choice is a matter of preference. As my question pertained to flatness, the opinion that Ilford's RC glossy is ugly strikes me as a bit, um, malicious. NO SOUP FOR YOU.

timeUnit · Apr 19, 2006

ChrisW said:
Simon:
Your generosity is above and beyond. This is why Ilford enjoy a loyal following. Your products are of the highest standards, and we are lucky to have you contributing to the APUG community. I have emailed my address. Thank you.

As for timeUnit's comments, I think we can all agree paper choice is a matter of preference. As my question pertained to flatness, the opinion that Ilford's RC glossy is ugly strikes me as a bit, um, malicious. NO SOUP FOR YOU.

How could my preference, and advice, be malicious? I'm just trying to help.

Ok, this is what I mean: on Ilford RC Glossy, I always feel there is a sheen "on top" of the picture. I doesn't matter what angle I'm looking from, it's always somewhere in the picture. This reduces the feeling of depth in the picture, IMO. This could be said of all the glossy RC papers I've tried, though. But in combination with the difficulty, in my experience, to tone Ilford RC papers, I'd leave the glossy alone and try a different brand or perhaps the Pearl surface.

As a side point, I find it odd that Simon, apparently a representative of Ilford, chooses to single me out as a traitor or antagonist, and decides to give me less service than to others. Is this how Ilford want to look to their customers? Maybe Simon was just joking, as I was in my first reply to him... :confused:

In all friendlyness,
henning

Simon R Galley · Apr 20, 2006

Dear Henning,

The World would be very boring if we all liked the same thing...and yes I was most certainly joking, you are all customers or potential customers and our community of monochrome is not huge, so we are all batting for the same side ( to use English cricketing speak ). I hope I treat all customers the same if they spend £1,000.00 or £ 1.00...or actually even if they spend nothing with ILFORD Photo. You are quite correct, our papers have a reputation for not toning as well as some others, thats partly true but they do tone. I am very aware that Selenium is very, very important and that is why ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology are launching one in the summer ( please see product availability thread )
and it tomes ILFORD RC and FB ( and others of course ) very nicely indeed.

And you can have a paper swatch anytime you want one...

With Kindest Regards

Simon.

timeUnit · Apr 20, 2006

Simon,

I apologize for not realising the tongue-in-cheek nature of your post. Communicating in written form sometimes makes for misunderstandings, as the tone of voice, body language etc, are lost.

It's also great to hear that you have addressed the toning issue of the RC papers.

Best regards,
henning

MikeM1977 · Apr 20, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Chris,

If you send me your address to my APUG e.mail I will send you an ILFORD Photo printed, surface swatch book FOC, please nobody else ask for one because they cost £ 7.00 each...especially TimeUnit..because he hurt my feelings and I will not send him one !.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

How can I purchase a swatch book?

dolande · Apr 20, 2006

MikeM1977 said:
How can I purchase a swatch book?

Same here. They seem not to be available for purchase in the US

arigram · Apr 20, 2006

I have been feeding my enlarger Ilford Multigrade IV RC in satin finish since I started printing. I used to hate glossy prints. Then after starting printing large I came to terms with the shinny finish so my conclusion is to print shinny 30x40cm and 50x60cm and matt (pearl and satin) 20x25cm and smaller. I have also found glossy to be more appropriate for stills and landscapes and satin for people.
But then that's just my taste.

BWKate · Apr 24, 2006

The Ilford Satin is one of my favourite papers! I love it. I also love the way the satin looks when toned with the Kodak Sepia toner. Absolutely gorgeous. The print I sent for the blind print exchange to gwatson was printed on satin that was sepia toned.

Simon R Galley · Apr 24, 2006

Mike / Dolande,

Send your addresses to my e.mail and I will sort it out

Simon.

MG IV RC Satin Appearance

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