MF on the cheap (not Holga)

fatso83 · May 15, 2009

I would like to get a MF camera (and lens!) for street photo, but I want it cheap. (But obviously not crappy and broken). Like 200£, MAX.

Some recommend twin lens cameras (tlrs) for street photo, but I'm not religious about this. So ANY tips are welcome. I have used a Konica Hexar and Holga for street so far.

Lots of Pentacon Six and Bronica bodies are to be had for 50-100£, but I would also need a lens, and then the prices rise quickly...

What would a 35mm in the 24x36 world translate to in MF: 60-70mm?

David A. Goldfarb · May 15, 2009

In a square format camera, 50mm is what feels most like a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera.

If you want an SLR, I like the Bronica S2a. You can build a fairly substantial system for not too much money, and the Nikon optics are fine lenses.

Andy K · May 15, 2009

For street shooting I would seriously consider an old folder. Agfa Isolettes come up quite cheap on the auction site.

Ian Grant · May 15, 2009

The Bronica S2a's David mentions are excellent cameras and there were excellent lenses available from Carl Zeiss Jena, & Komura as well as Nikkor (Nikon). The S2a was a serious competitor to the Hasselblad and they sold well so there are plenty of cameras and lenses around secondhand, they are far more reliable than the Pentacon Six.

Ian

Woudschim · May 15, 2009

The only issue with the S2a is the deterioration of the foam beneauth the ground glass. The foam dissolves over time, lowering the groundglass and causing focussing accuracy issues. If you have a good one however, the S2a is a great manual camera. I prefer it above the Hasselblad, the ease-of-use is, in my opinion, far greater than the Hasselblad 500c. The quality of the Nikkor lenses is outstanding. I had one, but sold it to buy a Mamiya 645 pro, I like the lightmetering and film transport. I used my S2a for streetshooting as well, worked great.

steven_e007 · May 15, 2009

I've got a lot of medium format gear - all cheap. Top of your price range limit might be a Mamiya C330 or C220 if you are lucky on eBay. I've got one and yes they are great, but extra lenses start at £150 a throw. Still damn cheap for MF but maybe out of your range?

I had a Kiev 60 medium format camera from new. It was the invension of the devil. Cheap - but bl**dy awful! Don't touch. It was the body shutter that was really naff. After replacing it under warrenty twice I chopped it for a much older Pentacon 6 body, a much nicer camera. This has proved 100%, reliable but they are very old now, so maybe I was lucky. Point is, you then have access to a lot of cheap lenses, Zeiss Jena P6 lenses (excellent and reasonably priced) and also russian Kiev 60 lenses (not as bad as the cameras and cheap!)

If you don't need to change lenses there are lots of TLR bargains about, but nearly all will have standard 80mm lenses.
The chinese Seagull is nice and can be bought new for less than £200.

Ditto folding cameras. There are some nice Mamiya folders on eBay right now, 6 X 6 but they will all be 80 mm (0r 75).
You can get basic folding 6 x 6 cameras from about £15 in fair order. If you have a £200 budget you could get something really fine - a nice Zeiss Ikonta or something tasty, but you will always be stuck with a standard lens. I love them, but the more basic ones have no rangefinder or parrallex correction for the viewfinder so not so good for fast, quickly framed shots.

If you want wide angle and cheap I'd go for a Mamiya TLR.

I've never used a Bronica, but I bet they are cheap because there's so many ex-wedding photography pro cameras on the market. So...might be some very well used ones about - be careful. A seagull might be a basic amateur camera, but a warrenty is a nice thing to have ;-)

fatso83 · May 15, 2009

Thank you, everyone! That was an overwhelming amount of useful info, and a lot more than I could hope for in just a few hours. This forum is really a lot more active than what I am used to

Nicholas Lindan · May 15, 2009

There are also folders: Zeiss Nettars and Ikontas; Agfa Isolettes; Voigtlander Bessas. $15 to $350.

fatso83 · May 15, 2009

@AndyK: those Agfa Isolettes look fantastic! I would really like one of those, even if I would buy something else with a wide angle. Great tip. If a camera like that doesn't make you look inconspicious, I don't know what will

David A. Goldfarb · May 15, 2009

The Bronica focusing issue is a pretty easy fix, but it is something you need to pay attention to.

archphoto · May 15, 2009

If you want something like a 35mm SLR: Bronica TRS with grip (4,5x6 cm) or Mamiya 645.
Cheap TLR's to keep for ever: Yashica, Rolleicord
TLR with interchangable lenses: Mamiya C220 or C330
Expensive TLR: Rolleiflex's
A bit more expensive: Fuji Range Finders

For off-the-street shooting: Hasselblad, Rollei SL66 and Mamiya RB67/RZ, Bronica 6x6 and 6x7

Having said that: an old folder, as mentioned above, are great, look for them at garage sales and local fairs.
Make shure that they use 120-film.

Good hunting and give your self some time, if you can get a good looking folder for around € 10,- : GET IT !

Peter

mjs · May 15, 2009

Just a tip - in my experience, an Isolette can be a chick magnet. I've had a number of them come up to me to see my strange little camera, we get to talking, and they say their grandpa had one just like it.

It might help that I probably look a little like their grandpa.

I'm not that old. Really.

elekm · May 15, 2009

If you want wide, a 6x9 folding camera can work. Lots of them out there from Agfa, Voigtlander, Zeiss Ikon, Balda, Kodak (almost always 620) and others.

Andy K · May 15, 2009

Some of my favourite shots were made using my old Isolette I.

nsurit · May 15, 2009

The Bronica I had early on sounded like cannon going off . . . almost as subtle as a train wreck. I like the folders. Bessa RF or Bessa II. Also use an Olympus Chrome Six. If you want a reflex, a Kowa Super 66 might fit the bill. Saw one on Craigslist recently at $400 with a 55MM and 80mm and a few other goodies. I've use the Mamiya twin lens cameras and like not use it for street photography. Cheap is good and now is a good time to be buying film cameras. With patience, real cheap can happen. Bill Barber

vdonovan · May 15, 2009

A note on old folders: if you buy one at a garage sale or ebay, quite often the focus ring is stuck. The lubricant used at the time turned to green goo over time. There are many, many places on the web that explain how to unstick them, but make sure you check before you buy so you know what you are getting into.

Yashica 124g TLR: cheap, quiet, good pics, and almost as good a chick magnet as an old folder. (Neither are as good as my old Leica IIIc, but that's 35mm).

Woudschim · May 15, 2009

Yes, the mirror and shutter sound of the Bronica S2a cannot be missed.

But for max 200, i'dd go for a Yashica-mat (great camera's!) Mamiya TLR, or maybe you can find a Zeiss Super Ikonta, a medium format folder with coupled rangefinder.

mikebarger · May 15, 2009

For the price, and a big quality negative,try a Koni Omega 6x7 rangefinder.

Most bang for the buck.

Mike

Sirius Glass · May 15, 2009

Well, for now Hasselblad is out for you.

The TLRs such as Mamiya are more affordable.

SLRs such as Bronica may be in your range.

I have a circa 1935 Certo Dolly Supersport, which is a folder with a Ziess lens, that I bought through the classified section of this website. I did not to have the lens and shutter CLAed, and the photographs that I have taken with it are sharp. Check out the Classified section to see what is available. [I do not sell any equipment, so I have nothing to gain from your buying from there.]

Steve

arealitystudios · May 15, 2009

I'm going to have to weigh in and say that if you like street shooting you'd be hard pressed to find something better than an old folder. I have an old Agfa folder that is small enought to fit in the pocket of my coat and has a brilliant sharp lens.

I tend to shoot with it like I would use a Holga. I keep it at f/8 and 1/250th of a second and just load film according to the weather (ISO 100 on sunny days and ISO 400 on cloudy days). With forgiving films this always yield printable negatives.

I also HIGHLY recomend TLR's. I own a Mamiya C330 and though it's a bit bulky for street shooting it's a great camera for more elabarote set ups. I regularly use it over my Hasselblad. To keep your cost down, I recomend looking into an old Yashica or even a Minolta TLR. Heck...a friend of mine owns one of those Seagull TLR's she bought brand new and gets lovely results with it.

srs5694 · May 15, 2009

steven_e007 said:
I've got a lot of medium format gear - all cheap. Top of your price range limit might be a Mamiya C330 or C220 if you are lucky on eBay. I've got one and yes they are great, but extra lenses start at £150 a throw. Still damn cheap for MF but maybe out of your range?

Prices vary regionally, of course, but when shopping on eBay, Mamiya TLR lenses start at substantially under £150 (US$228, according to this site). A quick scan of eBay shows most such lenses are selling in the $100-$200 range, so your price is closer to the upper limit than the lower limit, at least on the main (US-dominated) eBay site. That said, a UK purchaser buying from the US would end up paying a lot in postage, so if prices are higher in Europe, an eBay buy from the US might not be significantly less expensive than a purchase from nearer to home.

One tip when buying Mamiya C-series gear is to get a kit with as much stuff as possible. Buying a kit with a camera and several lenses and accessories is likely to cost less than those same items purchased separately.

sarahfoto · May 15, 2009

I bought a Lubitel 166 on ebay for close to nothing (20euros) and it's now my favourite! Coming up close to compete is an old Ful-vue Ensign...

srs5694 · May 15, 2009

Lubitels aren't much better than Holgas, from an overall quality perspective. The OP specified a £200 budget, and I suspect the other suggestions in this thread will be better suited than a Lubitel. (That's not to say that Lubitels are complete junk -- they have advantages such as being light in weight. My impression is that the OP wants something that's more flexible and that has more options than a Lubitel can provide, though.)

MizBrown · May 15, 2009

I have a Minolta Autocord and find that people and dogs are quite calm about being photographed by such a camera. It's slightly wide and does things like this:

removed account4 · May 15, 2009

folders are the best bang for the krone.

MF on the cheap (not Holga)

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