MF Newbie

firecracker · Jun 8, 2006

AeisLugh said:
are there websites for the places you are seeing those prices?

http://www.fujiya-camera.co.jp/chuk...d_option=and&key_distinction=0&print_count=50

Here's a page from a well-known camera store in Tokyo. The site is entirely in Japanese, and the prices are in Japanese yen: 1USD is between 110-120 yen or so (I don't follow the business news so I'm not sure the exchange rate right now). At least you can see the model numbers and prices here.

There's only one listed right now, but the one on the very top is the 1000s with a lens and whatever "AE" is. It's priced for 18,900 yen. The condition is AB-.

But usually I see many camera bodies in the stores that don't go online because there are just too many of them. And usually people bring their cameras in and rent the store space. They put the prices on their cameras and pay the fee (10-15 percent) to the stores when their cameras get sold. So that's another reason the prices are a bit lower than usual.

Greg_E · Jun 8, 2006

AE is the Auto Exposure prism, there are two types of AE prisms, one is better than the other, but I don't remember their exact part numbers.

John Koehrer · Jun 8, 2006

The age of some earlier 645's should rule them out for you, they're getting old & creaky.
645E is a pretty recent camera, more basic than some but it has a built in prism & meter. The back isn't interchangable, so if you want Polaroids you're SOL.
RB67's at KEH can be had for peanuts(250-300) & give a larger neg & greater versatility. Tradeoff is weight & bulk.

AeisLugh · Jun 8, 2006

John Koehrer said:
The age of some earlier 645's should rule them out for you, they're getting old & creaky.
645E is a pretty recent camera, more basic than some but it has a built in prism & meter. The back isn't interchangable, so if you want Polaroids you're SOL.
RB67's at KEH can be had for peanuts(250-300) & give a larger neg & greater versatility. Tradeoff is weight & bulk.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I'm not overly worried about weight and bulk. I'm a big guy, and tend to worry about breaking small things accidentally.

Greg_E · Jun 8, 2006

There's a guy on Fred Miranda selling an RB system for $500. Was a body, lens, viewfinder, a couple of backs, maybe something else. It was just listed today, so it might still be around.

Greg_E · Jun 8, 2006

Sorry last post was wrong, it was a Bronica SQ-A system. Though there is a guy selling all kinds of Mamiya stuff...645, RB, RZ, lenses...

egdinger · Jun 8, 2006

Just missed an rb67 kit on FM that had 3 backs, a body, prism, waistlevel, 4 lenses, macro tubes, pellican case, and more for $400. Kicking myself for that one.

Did end up with an rb67 though and love it.

Dan's45 · Jun 8, 2006

just my 2 cents...might want to look into something that has a 120/220 pressure plate...won't be spending money on two backs then...while there is a big setback to this...you can't change backs and film when you want...but oh well...sacrficies. another thing...consider ...no reallly consider what you plan to do with this thing. go try out any mf camera you can...rent would be a better idea and run a rolld though it ...see how you like it...that way you have more of an idea what you are looking for. then you have more of and idea where to go whne you mkae a final decision...ok? hope this helps!

Greg_E · Jun 8, 2006

egdinger said:
Just missed an rb67 kit on FM that had 3 backs, a body, prism, waistlevel, 4 lenses, macro tubes, pellican case, and more for $400. Kicking myself for that one.

Did end up with an rb67 though and love it.

Ummm... That was a screaming deal! If I had seen that I might have grabbed it, not sure why as I don't need it, but I could have always broken up the set and sold for a profit.

AeisLugh · Jun 9, 2006

Dan's45 said:
just my 2 cents...might want to look into something that has a 120/220 pressure plate...won't be spending money on two backs then...while there is a big setback to this...you can't change backs and film when you want...but oh well...sacrficies. another thing...consider ...no reallly consider what you plan to do with this thing. go try out any mf camera you can...rent would be a better idea and run a rolld though it ...see how you like it...that way you have more of an idea what you are looking for. then you have more of and idea where to go whne you mkae a final decision...ok? hope this helps!

I'd love to just rent one for a weekend, or for specific photoshoots to try out, but I haven't been able to find anywhere in my area that even CARRIES medium format cameras, let alone rents them.

nc5p · Jun 9, 2006

I bought a 645 Super with 35 and 150 Leaf Shutter lenses from KEH. I love this camera. The RB/RZ is a wonderful camera, too. I helped a pro with a photo shoot last fall who was using one. It was just too large for what I want to do with it. The Mamiya takes such better pictures than 35mm I sold all my Nikon gear.

Doug

gnashings · Jun 9, 2006

I would never get rid of my 35mm gear. I find that most people, even on this site, grow to regret such rash moves - although I agree completely on the hands down superiority of MF format in terms of possible image quality.

One question, Aeis,
What is your budget? I see some marvelous deals on the auction site for RB's (guess who is looking for one as well... you will never guess..), and would gladly send you links if I see one that seems to look good - but it all depends on your budget.

Greg_E · Jun 9, 2006

gnashings said:
I would never get rid of my 35mm gear. I find that most people, even on this site, grow to regret such rash moves - although I agree completely on the hands down superiority of MF format in terms of possible image quality.

You could always get the 35mm film back for the 645. If you also get the panorama adapter, you can take long shots on the 35mm film, but I forget the actual dimensions.

Nick Zentena · Jun 9, 2006

Different horses for different courses. I use my 35mm cameras for different things in different ways. Putting a 35mm back on a MF camera and you've still got a MF camera. It's not going to be small like some 35mm cameras. Or fast like some others. Or totally mindless and automated like some others.

battra92 · Jun 9, 2006

gnashings said:
I would never get rid of my 35mm gear. I find that most people, even on this site, grow to regret such rash moves - although I agree completely on the hands down superiority of MF format in terms of possible image quality.

That's a good point. I'm on a MF folders kick this year, because I hate lugging my 35mm SLR everywhere and they are cheap and work very well. However, I do see using 135 for some projects this summer. I'll just have a 645 Zeiss folder in my pocket as well.

AeisLugh · Jun 9, 2006

gnashings said:
I would never get rid of my 35mm gear. I find that most people, even on this site, grow to regret such rash moves - although I agree completely on the hands down superiority of MF format in terms of possible image quality.

One question, Aeis,
What is your budget? I see some marvelous deals on the auction site for RB's (guess who is looking for one as well... you will never guess..), and would gladly send you links if I see one that seems to look good - but it all depends on your budget.

well, right now, I don't think I can manage much more than 500 without ending up with my wife putting me in the doghouse lol

gnashings · Jun 10, 2006

AeisLugh said:
well, right now, I don't think I can manage much more than 500 without ending up with my wife putting me in the doghouse lol

You would think I get a slice of all RB sales in the world, the way I go on!
Of course, I do not - but I do love the beasties, and $500 (US or CDN, really) will get you probably a little more than a basic kit if you hunt well. I believe I saw several outfits with multiple lenses and/or backs that fit well within than price. Actually, I was going to send you some links, but there are so many, that I would just suggest going to eBay and doing a search, choices seem to abound. And definitely do not get rid of your 35mm gear to finance this - you will absolutely need a 35mm camera the very next day - Mr. Murphy says so!

Peter.

gnashings · Jun 10, 2006

OK, I said I wouldn't, but this one maybe worth keeping an eye on...

Jim Chinn · Jun 10, 2006

Prices will continue to decline for all MF gear. Here in Omaha I have talked to a lot of wedding pros and they are all going to digital 35mm and most studios the same with the exception of a couple of shops that do a variety of work that are using digital backs for MF. MF gear is being dumped on the market at an incredible rate.

I jumped in recently replacing an old broken C330 with a Bronica SQ-A with 2 backs, prisim, speedgrip, PS 80 lens for $350. i would rate it as a 9. Now I am looking at buying an SQ-B that had been purchased for a backup and has had about a dozen rolls of film shot through it for about $150.

I had hung back from MF out of fear that MF film would probably be the first format to quit being made since the demand has got to be a tiny fraction of what it was just a few years ago. Sicne I primarily shoot B&W and with Ilford committed to film I figured I would get back in for a modest investment and enjoy it as long as film is still available. The nice thing about MF (like LF) is that one can get by pretty well with a limited number of films. I would be perfectly happy if the only fim available was HP5.

Nick Zentena · Jun 10, 2006

Jim Chinn said:
Prices will continue to decline for all MF gear.

I'm not sure that's the case. Already some stuff is getting harder to find and when you do find it the cost can be high. I've been trying to find a replacement Pentax 645 battery holder. The things in rough shape are selling for little less then a whole body!$#$#. The thing is to buy when everybody is dumping. Usually when a company kills a product. But after the dumping is over most of the stuff is in the hands of people that would rather keep it then sell it for almost nothing.

Jim Chinn · Jun 10, 2006

Nick,

Agreed that as a lot of these systems get bought up, especially ones no longer being made, costs will stabalize and start to go back up. But I think we are a ways away yet. I guess we could also get to were the value of some cameras drops to the point that people decide not to put them on the market which will increase the price for those that are for sale.

But I have been watching and have seen places such as KEH continually drop the prices on variety of systems over time, particularly Bronicas and Mamiyas.

However, I don't think waiting for prices to drop further is a good strategy if one is looking. The selection is fantastic between units from new in box to bargain selections. One reason I am thinking about buying a second body is the cost of the mint SQ-B I am looking is less then what most repair costs would be for the SQ-A (about a 10 year older camera) if it has problems. That's what I found with my Nikons. When my backup FE shutter broke I found it was cheaper just to find another good used camera then pay for the repair.
I was never very familiar with the costs of these MF kits when new, but it still blows me away when I see near new Sinar 8x10 cameras that cost $5000-$7000 going for less then $1000. I suppose the percentage of value decline in MF is even steeper.

AeisLugh · Jun 10, 2006

gnashings said:
You would think I get a slice of all RB sales in the world, the way I go on!
Of course, I do not - but I do love the beasties, and $500 (US or CDN, really) will get you probably a little more than a basic kit if you hunt well. I believe I saw several outfits with multiple lenses and/or backs that fit well within than price. Actually, I was going to send you some links, but there are so many, that I would just suggest going to eBay and doing a search, choices seem to abound. And definitely do not get rid of your 35mm gear to finance this - you will absolutely need a 35mm camera the very next day - Mr. Murphy says so!

Peter.

Oh, I don't plan to get rid of my 35mm gear. I plan on using the two outfits almost in tandem. My initial though was to keep my 35mm camera mostly for colour film, and shoot the MF exclusively in B&W. But that's mostly because if I'm going to spend money on an MF camera, I want to be able to develope and print the pics myself, and the rental darkrooms in the area only have the fascilities for B&W

Nick Zentena · Jun 10, 2006

Jim Chinn said:
Nick,

Agreed that as a lot of these systems get bought up, especially ones no longer being made, costs will stabalize and start to go back up. But I think we are a ways away yet.

It seems to me the Bronica ETRS has more or less bottommed. The SQs seem to have come up a little lately. At least I seem to remember KEH had plenty at lower prices last year.

The other thing I've noticed it's getting harder to be picky. Last year you could could choose almost anything and have a chance of finding them. Now it seems it's mostly normal lenses and other more common stuff. I know the winder I bought last year for my ETRSI is higher now from KEH. So is the prism.

Greg_E · Jun 10, 2006

I'm having a tough time finding a waist level finder for my Mamiya 645 Super/Pro bodies. I might have to pay actual real money for one.

gnashings · Jun 11, 2006

AeisLugh said:
Oh, I don't plan to get rid of my 35mm gear. I plan on using the two outfits almost in tandem. My initial though was to keep my 35mm camera mostly for colour film, and shoot the MF exclusively in B&W. But that's mostly because if I'm going to spend money on an MF camera, I want to be able to develope and print the pics myself, and the rental darkrooms in the area only have the fascilities for B&W

Well... a friend of mine just visited last week with some prints from his RB - colour, mainly Protra I believe... they were just 8x10's and he was just getting his colour printing dialed in... but they were truly impressive. Before you know it, you will stick a roll of Velvia in it, just to see a slide that BIG!
But I can certainly relate, for the most part, 90% of my "work" is B&W. I just like it that way

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