MF for close-up portraits

xya · Aug 6, 2012

fastw said:
Just realized how close you can shoot with a Mamiya C330. Anyone with any experience with those?

yes, it's incredible. I've used them since more than 30 years and I don't remember a situation where I would have wanted a different camera. it's good for anything and it never failed.

fastw · Aug 6, 2012

xya said:
yes, it's incredible. I've used them since more than 30 years and I don't remember a situation where I would have wanted a different camera. it's good for anything and it never failed.

Which lens would you get for portraits, 80mm, or longer?

xya · Aug 6, 2012

fastw said:
Which lens would you get for portraits, 80mm, or longer?

I mostly just used the 80mm. my portraits were mainly people I know, so close distance wasn't a problem. it's outstanding if you make people sit and then use the waist-level finder.

I had a 135mm which was fine for facial portraits from a bit more than 1 metre distance. but I used it rarely and sold it. I never had the 105mm. perhaps there are other people on forum who can tell you more.

MattKing · Aug 6, 2012

fastw said:
Which lens would you get for portraits, 80mm, or longer?

I've use a C330 since the 1970s. I used to use it for weddings, portraits and general work.

In the last few years I've added other options (645, 6x7) and have simplified my kit somewhat, but I still like the C330.

They are a bit larger than most TLRs, but a two or three lens kit is definitely smaller and lighter than the equivalent kit in an SLR.

The 80mm lens is the most flexible for a one lens kit. I'm very happy with my two lens kit - 65mm and 135mm.

The 135mm is my portrait lens choice.

I have a prism finder and used it a lot when I shot weddings. It is quite heavy though. I prefer the waist level finder most times.

Slixtiesix · Aug 7, 2012

Close up portraits done with an 80mm lens will definitely look distorted. I would not use anything under 120mm. Preferably something in the 135-180mm range.

fastw · Aug 8, 2012

Just shot a roll with P67 and 135Macro.Very, well maybe not very but somewhat surprised at the quality and close-up ability. Looks like the combination to have for close up portraits. Focusing is a bit of a challenge though as the DOF is so shallow. Practice makes perfect.

john_s · Aug 10, 2012

Slixtiesix said:
Close up portraits done with an 80mm lens will definitely look distorted. I would not use anything under 120mm. Preferably something in the 135-180mm range.

Even a standing group with 80mm can be distorted. I did a wedding group of about 8 people standing in a line in a space confined enough that I could only just get them in the frame, using a Mamiya 7 with 80mm lens (6cm x 7cm neg). The people at the ends had a wide-angle distorted look, accentuated by their being rather tall.

fastw · Aug 11, 2012

Just printed a big size (A1) portrait. The face fills at least 75% of the frame. Sharpness pretty good but DOF too bloody shallow (f5.6). Will definitely need a faster film (400-800asa) and aperture of about f11 or even f16 to get most of the face in focus. DOF at F5.6 at 0.7m is only 2cm, at f11, 4cm. Bit of PITA. Good challenge though.

Thanks for all the advice Guys.

Sirius Glass · Aug 12, 2012

Yes, 150mm for a Hasselblad.

Welcome to APUG

fastw · Aug 13, 2012

Just got an "early" P67 with a 135Macro on ebay. Wish me luck.

segedi · Aug 15, 2012

Good luck!

cyberjunkie · Aug 17, 2012

fastw said:
The wooden handle, it seems to me like it should be on the other side. How do you use it? I normally focus with right and shoot with right hand.

You're right about the handle, most cameras have it the other way round.
Though i still prefer to keep the handle mounted, as i find that it's more useful to help you handle the camera while you walk, than as a support for extra stability when you shoot.
My right hand is a lot stronger thanthe left, so i find it natural to hold the camera when i want to be ready to shoot a picture.
When the camera is transported, and there is no need to be ready for a shot, i use the original strap, and i must say that i am in love with the three-point attachment, like that of the LX.
In the end, the P67 is the only 6x7 really usable handheld (and one of the very few MF's, excluding 4.5x6 cameras).
Having said all that, frankly i see no reasons to choose an analog MF camera to shoot MOSTLY handheld.
Occasionally, yes. Most of the times,no.
The quality of modern MF films screams for a good tripod!
Especially 6x7 and 6x9 formats have enough film area to allow for nice analog prints up to generous enlargements. Even digitized, they hold up well, using consumer-grade flatbed scanners like an Epson 4990 or V500.
IMHO, 6x6 is somewhat impaired by the fact that it's cropped to 4.5x6 most of the times (if you don't absolutely love to print square... which of course i don't).
BTW, the wooden handle doesn't impair the use of the camera on tripod, so you can leave it on all the time, as i do since the first day i purchased it.

have fun

CJ

Sent from my Android tablet

fastw · Aug 17, 2012

I actually meant I focus with my left hand and shoot with right. The handle looks absolutely beautiful. Love the wooden bit.
Would really love a right side one with a release.

raccou · Aug 17, 2012

cyberjunkie said:
In the end, the P67 is the only 6x7 really usable handheld (and one of the very few MF's, excluding 4.5x6 cameras).
Having said all that, frankly i see no reasons to choose an analog MF camera to shoot MOSTLY handheld.
Occasionally, yes. Most of the times,no.

I beg to differ.
I use my rz67 about 70% of the time handheld. With the grip, it really helps handling the camera. With the 110mm I can shoot handheld at 1/60th, 65mm at 1/30th and have sharp results. Without the grip I wouldn't carry it that long, that's a fact. I guess it all depends on how and what you shoot...

cyberjunkie · Aug 17, 2012

fastw said:
I actually meant I focus with my left hand and shoot with right. The handle looks absolutely beautiful. Love the wooden bit.
Would really love a right side one with a release.

Sorry if my answer was a little obscure.
When i wrote that other cameras are made the opposite way, i was thinking about all those big cameras using 120 film, which have handle and release button in the same place. Specifically: Mamiya Press, Graflex XL, and all the small Linhofs.
While those cameras are not exactly the speediest ones for handheld shooting, all allow to adjust focus and then shoot, without repositioning your right hand.
In the end, the difference is made by how you use your camera. I never used my 6x7 for fast shooting, and while i loved to use it handheld, i always tried to brace to a tree, pole, or something like that, to decrease the chance of micro-blur.
I have always feared the vibrations induced by the curtain shutter, but now i can say that's not as bad as it sounds.

Now i am more a large format lens collector (from mid '800 to the sixties), and i definitely shoot less pictures than i used to do. Pentax digital for travel pics, and large format for more serious stuff. If i am lazy, i use XP2, in 120 rolls, cause it can be developed for a cheap price, like a standard colour negative.
I mostly shoot 6x9 and 6x12, using a folding press/technical camera.
Nevertheless, i have kept my P67, while all the other MF cameras have gone (or will go in the near future).
One of the reasons (which is often overlooked) is that the focal plane shutter allows to experiment with "foreign" optics, either using the bellows or adapting a P67 bajonet to a lens made for another camera.
I have a Pentacon Six bellows and a Meyer/Pentacon 500mm adapted for the Pentax. I had a Zodiak fisheye (too tough to be adapted), and still have a CZJ Sonnar 300mm (so simple to adapt, that i never had the job done!).

have fun

CJ

Sent from my Android tablet

cyberjunkie · Aug 17, 2012

raccou said:
I beg to differ.
I use my rz67 about 70% of the time handheld.
.......
I guess it all depends on how and what you shoot...

I can't agree more.
It all depend on your shooting habits.
As far as i understand, it should be much better to choose the camera that suits your style, instead of trying to adapt yourself to the peculiarities of the camera.
Of course, your wallet must allow it in the first place
If you are not given that choice, trying to adapt yourself to a new camera can be a challenge that opens new doors, not necessary bad...
Most of the times the nature of the instrument affects the quality of the result. Shooting a couple pictures a day in 8x10" yelds a different kind of pictures than, for example, spraying countless shots in digital.

BTW, i love the Mamiya RB, but i never had the chance to play a little with one fitted with the handle.
I am happy that you find it perfectly OK for handheld photography, though it's evident that the RB/RZ were conceived as mainly studio/tripod cameras. The rotating back is the main clue.

have fun

CJ

Sent from my Android tablet

Diapositivo · Aug 18, 2012

Totally agree with DesertNate in post #36.

Cameras don't matter much. Choice of focal length comes first, good results depend from laws of perspective.

In 135 terms the canonical portrait lens would be around 90mm or 100mm. Less than that and the facial traits are distorted as well explained above or, as it also happens, the head appears to be larger than normal in respect of the rest of the body. More than that and the typical "compression" of planes of the tele lens begins being disturbing and detracts from the final result.

For medium format the focal length must be the larger equivalent, around 160 - 180 mm.

Sirius Glass · Aug 18, 2012

Diapositivo said:
Totally agree with DesertNate in post #36.

Cameras don't matter much. Choice of focal length comes first, good results depend from laws of perspective.

In 135 terms the canonical portrait lens would be around 90mm or 100mm. Less than that and the facial traits are distorted as well explained above or, as it also happens, the head appears to be larger than normal in respect of the rest of the body. More than that and the typical "compression" of planes of the tele lens begins being disturbing and detracts from the final result.

For medium format the focal length must be the larger equivalent, around 160 - 180 mm.

Basically as Diapositivo stated the choice of focal length for a format size dictates the perspective. Too short a focal length makes the nose large and the ears stick out; too long a focal length foreshortens the head and the face looks flattened.

I disagree with

For medium format the focal length must be the larger equivalent, around 160 - 180 mm.

because medium format can range from 645 to 6x6 to 6x7 to 6x9. For 645 to 6x6 150mm to 180mm would work, however 150mm many be too short for 6x9.

Soft focus lenses or diffusion filters tend to work better for female portraits, since the distaff usually does not like to have every bit of detail show up in print. If you want to drive a woman crazy just give her a really strong magnifying mirror to use for putting on makeup. Green filters and sometimes orange filters can help remove blemishes.

Sirius Glass · Aug 18, 2012

rich815 said:
They [6x7 Mamiyas] are gorgeous cameras. But I HIGHLY recommend you see and hold one before you buy. They are HUGE.

And heavy!

Dismayed · Aug 18, 2012

raccou said:
I beg to differ.
I use my rz67 about 70% of the time handheld. With the grip, it really helps handling the camera. With the 110mm I can shoot handheld at 1/60th, 65mm at 1/30th and have sharp results. Without the grip I wouldn't carry it that long, that's a fact. I guess it all depends on how and what you shoot...

The OP has his camera already, but I'd use a 645 SLR if I wanted to shoot handheld. The Bronica ETRSi is nice, and leaf shutters are quiet. I'm not enough of a masochist to lug about an RZ all day for handheld shooting.

agfarapid · Aug 19, 2012

If you're considering MF (medium format) you might want to consider the Mamiya 645 Pro or Super with motor drive and prism. Great combo with the 150 and a "heads" only portrait easily fills the frame.

fastw · Dec 17, 2012

Back from India, the project finished. So I used the Pentax 6X7 with 135/f4 Macro with (I think) great success. Both cost me $280 and once got going, proved very good. Locked up a few times on first roll, so seams shutter needs 20-30 releases and then works fine. The images look well exposed , dof very shallow though. Need even faster film (used Tri-x at 400asa) for higher f-stops. After scanning with lowly Epson v500 so far printed a couple, one A1 and one A0. A0 is pushing it, but A1 looks good. Wonder what a really good scanner could produce.
Anyway, I think I'm in love with the big Pentax and thinking of getting a Mk2 but they seem to be getting more expensive by the day. The lens, even though looking very tired, proved perfect, with beautifully smooth focus ring action and great optical quality. Guess they don't make them like that anymore.

Well thanks for good advice and looking forward to a new project.
Cheers, Wojtek.,

polyglot · Dec 17, 2012

We wanna see photos!

Pics or it didn't happen

fastw · Dec 17, 2012

fastw · Dec 18, 2012

Just a few.
Hope you like them.
W

MF for close-up portraits

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