Metric sheet film sizes to go away?

Jerevan · Oct 11, 2006

Few people probably care, but I have been told that both Ilford and Kodak are phasing out the metric sheet film sizes (such as 13x18cm for example). I don't care much for Kodak but would be sad to see Ilford FP4 go away in metric.

I just hope this is one of those "net rumours". Otherwise I am pretty much locked into using the eastern stuff which I admittedly have only used in small format but I found it lacking. Or I'll have to buy a whole hog of different sized film holders.

Ole · Oct 11, 2006

I haven't been told that by Ilford - and I think I remember asking when I was there. As long as there is a market, I believe they will supply the product. Which is bad for my 24x30cm film supply - I must be one of only ten or so people who want this and won't substitute 9.5x12".

Petzi · Oct 11, 2006

Jerevan said:
Few people probably care, but I have been told that both Ilford and Kodak are phasing out the metric sheet film sizes (such as 13x18cm for example).

13x18 cm seems to be more popular than its 5x7" counterpart, so it would surprise me if this size was phased out in favor of 5x7". If it is indeed phased out then probably because they don't want to supply sheet film any longer.

BrianShaw · Oct 11, 2006

Whatever happened to world metrification?

Jerevan · Oct 11, 2006

There is something fishy in all this; the relation between film makers, dealers and buyers doesn't add up. Film makers want to sell film, but dealers (by my own experience and in dealing with different sales people in different countries around the globe) do seem to have a problem with even making people aware of what actually does or does not exist in the product lists.

Which can leave a customer quite confused as to what brands and products can be had and to what prices. In several instances, I have had to specifically ask for a product to have dealers grudgingly acknowledge they can sell it to me. Prices and availability may vary during say, a years time, but I believe the technololgy is here to provide the prospective buyers with this basic information.

However, as Ole says: products will be around for as long as we buy them. So that's what I am going to do.

Jerevan · Oct 11, 2006

BrianShaw said:
Whatever happened to world metrification?

It moves forward, slowly, inch by inch.

David H. Bebbington · Oct 12, 2006

Jerevan said:
There is something fishy in all this; the relation between film makers, dealers and buyers doesn't add up. Film makers want to sell film, but dealers (by my own experience and in dealing with different sales people in different countries around the globe) do seem to have a problem with even making people aware of what actually does or does not exist in the product lists.

Which can leave a customer quite confused as to what brands and products can be had and to what prices. In several instances, I have had to specifically ask for a product to have dealers grudgingly acknowledge they can sell it to me. Prices and availability may vary during say, a years time, but I believe the technololgy is here to provide the prospective buyers with this basic information.

However, as Ole says: products will be around for as long as we buy them. So that's what I am going to do.

The reasons for availability difficulties are:
1) Manufacturers have strict minimum order requirements, below which they won't accept an order AT ALL.
2) Manufacturers heavily favour bulk buyers when it comes to discounts - even if a dealer is willing to order say 2 boxes of 13 x 18 cm film and can make the minimum order level together with other products, the dealer will make virtually no profit.
3) Because of 1) and 2), dealers sales levels are low, dealer staff product knowledge is poor and there is no incentive for dealers to provide staff training on products which they almost never sell!

Jerevan · Oct 12, 2006

David H. Bebbington said:
2) Manufacturers heavily favour bulk buyers when it comes to discounts - even if a dealer is willing to order say 2 boxes of 13 x 18 cm film and can make the minimum order level together with other products, the dealer will make virtually no profit.

I agree with all of your reasoning, David.

Thusly, dealers tend to push what they can make a profit out of, be it the product the buyer really wants or not. Quality doesn't matter, as long as it sells. Manufacturers with low prices and low minimum orders gets the dealers vote, as it raises the chance of making the needed profit.

Simon R Galley · Oct 12, 2006

Metric Sheet Film Sizes : Reply From ILFORD Photo

Dear All,

The last thing we wish to do is withdraw specialist products of any type, and as you all know we made a special make of ULF film earlier this year.

We have made no decision to 'withdraw' metric sheet film sizes, but if volumes decline to an uneconomic level we will have to go to some kind of special make and to get some specialist resellers in Europe to agree to stock
it, we are certainly willing to do all we can to ensure our customers can continue to get these products.

Regards

Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Jerevan · Oct 12, 2006

Thanks Simon,

I'll do my part in trying to keep the (metric) film business going.

ajuk · Oct 25, 2006

I would have thought the oposite would apply, I wouldnt be surprised if modernt 4x5" sheet film is cut to the nearest millimeter.

Ted Harris · Nov 5, 2006

Sorry to come in so late but I just wasn't watching. I can't speak for Ilford but I have talked at length to Kodak. I was concerned after they announced they were discontinuing all 5x7 color film. Their professional film rep confirmed the discontinuance of 5x7 color and, at the same time, stressed that there will be no change in the availability of emulsions available in 13x18 with the exception of Portra which has been discontinued due to lack of demand.

Petzi · Nov 5, 2006

Ted Harris said:
Sorry to come in so late but I just wasn't watching. I can't speak for Ilford but I have talked at length to Kodak. I was concerned after they announced they were discontinuing all 5x7 color film. Their professional film rep confirmed the discontinuance of 5x7 color and, at the same time, stressed that there will be no change in the availability of emulsions available in 13x18 with the exception of Portra which has been discontinued due to lack of demand.

If I remember correctly, the 13x18 Portra they discontinued was the Tungsten version. I can understand that demand for this was very low. I think a daylight color negative film would make more sense, but I'm sure they won't re-introduce that.

We can consider ourselves lucky that 8x10" color neg is still available, though Kodak appear to have discontinued the ASA 400 version of 8x10" Portra recently.

Metric sheet film sizes to go away?

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