Metol-safety of use-Barry Thornton

lensmagic · May 22, 2008

Barry Thornton in Edge of Darkness states that impure versions of metol used to cause dermatitis for a few susceptible people who immersed their hands in it, and calls this type of dermatitis a problem of the past. Am I safe in agitating films and papers in metol developers using my bare hands???

el wacho · May 22, 2008

he also warns of people 'gaily' bathing thier hands in hydroquinone (MQ , PQ) paper developers - hydroquinone being related to cachetol. a large amount of paper developers have hydroquinone - another reason to use tongs. check out jackspcs.com

David A. Goldfarb · May 22, 2008

Some people have an allergy to impurities in metol (usually called a "metol allergy," though it's not to the metol itself). I've never had a problem with it myself, and I don't think the reaction is usually very severe for those who do have the allergy (they usually notice it after prolonged exposure), but if it causes a rash or if you're worried about it, wear gloves.

Kino · May 22, 2008

Maybe it will affect you, maybe not; I handled metol from Kodak last year and it really caused a major outbreak of dermatitis above the edge of the gloves I wore. The rash went away in about 3 days of no exposure to chemicals.

We bought Metol in 100 lb drums, as pure as Kodak made it.

Of course, I was handling other chemicals too, so who knows?

bdial · May 22, 2008

Keeping your hands out of the chemistry is a good idea. In addition to limiting your exposure to agents that may cause sensitivity or dermatitis, it also helps in preventing contamination of your chemistry and materials.
Since everyone's personal chemistry is different, I don't think a blanket statement that it's a problem of the past is valid.

Using tongs whenever possible, and gloves otherwise is a good idea, not that I always follow my own advice.:rolleyes:

David A. Goldfarb · May 22, 2008

If you start using chemicals that you really want to keep your hands out of (e.g., silver nitrate, amidol, pyro, sodium hydroxide), wearing gloves becomes second nature, and you stop worrying about the cost of changing them several times in a darkroom session, because they aren't that expensive in the context of the other things you're doing, so now I wear nitrile gloves for all sorts of reasons, particularly whenever I'm handling sheet film, and I don't get fingerprints on my film anymore, and my hands don't smell like fixer. Occasionally I'll have some sort of accident, like a sheet of film getting lost in a deep tank (usually because I'm doing something unorthodox, like using the rack from a Yankee tank in a 5x7" tank line), that necessitates immersing my hands in the chemicals, but it's more the exception than the rule these days.

jim appleyard · May 22, 2008

Be safe, use tongs. You never know about long-term exposure.

df cardwell · May 22, 2008

I figure no body parts will fall off if I touch pyro or metol,
but gloves are, as David explains, the easy answer.

I've stopped eating mercury and asbestos as well.

Muihlinn · May 23, 2008

I haven't had problems in 20 years, but lately I developed a contact allergy. It seems related to darkroom processing chemicals, so better do not touch anything with bare hands if you can avoid it. Gloves are ok.

mrtoml · May 23, 2008

I used to get developer on my hands all the time and never had a problem, but a few years ago I suddenly started getting a reaction to metol developers. Now I just wear nitrile gloves. They are very cheap.

Whiteymorange · May 23, 2008

www.dontheglove.com

I have serious skin problems after contact with any metol or hydroquinone. HC110 is the only developer that doesn't cause my skin to go crazy. Between that and the allergy I've developed to solvents, I tend to have gloves and a smock on before I even open a bottle of fluids in the studio or darkroom. (beer doesn't count - no gloves necessary there, but the smock does help when I spill...) Otherwise, one day in the darkroom means three or four days of red, cracked, sore hands.

Don Wallace · May 23, 2008

I don't get a reaction to chemistry, but I found that occasionally I ruined my work with fingerprints so now I use tongs all the time. I no longer stink of fixer at the end of a session.

Nicholas Lindan · May 23, 2008

lensmagic said:
impure versions of metol used to cause dermatitis

Anecdotally, it may have to do with length of exposure and not amount of exposure.

The photographer at the hospital where my parents worked as physicians presented with a rash on his right shoulder. Darkroom chemicals were suspect but the photographer was careful to use rubber gloves and tongs. He was not active in any gardening or sports activities involving the shoulders. My mother then observed him working in the darkroom and noticed he wiped his gloved hands dry on a towel that he then threw over his right shoulder. He had been putting the towel on his shoulder for 20 years but the rash had only developed in the past months. The rash disappeared after he began to leave the towel on the towel rail.

el wacho · May 23, 2008

sounds like the consensus is 'no glove, no love' ...

Lee L · May 23, 2008

As I understand it, most allergies only present after some threshold exposure, which can vary from one instance to many hundreds of exposures over many years. Once you reach that threshold, you have some mild to severe allergic reaction.

So you may work with some chemicals for years, then suddenly have allergy symptoms.

Lee

dancqu · May 24, 2008

I don't bother with gloves although I work with metol film and paper developers.
Many years ago I was quarantined in the college infirmary. I had developed a
superficial red rash over most of my body. The doctors did not know what
the cause. I walked out the second day. Only a rash.

Many years later I learned of the rash sometimes caused by metol and
made the connection. No problems since then. Dan

Philippe-Georges · May 25, 2008

Over here, the State Department of Health has , what we call, 'Anti Gif Centrum' (I can not translate this properly) and one of the toxicologists told me that Hydrochinone and Metol are causing a 'Cumulative Allergy' (I hope this translation is correct). It can take some time, more or less, to develop an allergy once the body has reached the 'fatal' point, this is what I have...

Philippe

Lee L · May 25, 2008

leicam5 said:
Over here, the State Department of Health has , what we call, 'Anti Gif Centrum' (I can not translate this properly) and one of the toxicologists told me that Hydrochinone and Metol are causing a 'Cumulative Allergy' (I hope this translation is correct). It can take some time, more or less, to develop an allergy once the body has reached the 'fatal' point, this is what I have...

Philippe

'Anti Gif Centrum' -

We'd call it a poison control center in the US, the name for a local agency which advises on treatment for contact with potentially dangerous substances here in the US.

The German 'gift' is translated to 'poison' in English. I'm assuming that 'gif' is the Dutch or Flemish equivalent of 'gift'.

Lee

panastasia · May 25, 2008

leicam5 said:
..... and one of the toxicologists told me that Hydrochinone and Metol are causing a 'Cumulative Allergy' (I hope this translation is correct). It can take some time, more or less, to develop an allergy once the body has reached the 'fatal' point, this is what I have...

Philippe

This sounds correct, also what Lee L said. I had no problems for about 20 years of sloshing around in developers with bare hands, then a rash developed on various parts of my body - slight at first, it would flare up and then go away for a while - now it's a permanent feature on my thumb knuckles for the past 20 years and never goes away completely.

For those who believe that they're not allergic, as I did, give it more time and you may find out that you are, and then it will be too late to do anything about it. Don't gamble, use gloves or tongs.

Paul

Philippe-Georges · May 26, 2008

Lee L said:
'Anti Gif Centrum' -

We'd call it a poison control center in the US, the name for a local agency which advises on treatment for contact with potentially dangerous substances here in the US.

The German 'gift' is translated to 'poison' in English. I'm assuming that 'gif' is the Dutch or Flemish equivalent of 'gift'.

Lee

Yes, Lee, your assuming is right.
The mediaeval Flemish and the old 'Pflat Deutsch' are very similar, the actual (modern) Flemish and German are a lot less similar, but it helps...

Panastasia, don't you think that there should be done something about the use of MQ? There are a lot less dangerous alternatives.

Philippe

jgcull · Sep 26, 2008

I've searched & found this because I'm tired of going to sleep and waking, scratching! This rash started as a whelp-feeling patch (not dry or flaky) in my scalp, and moved down and around... almost everywhere. I've smeared myself with baby diaper ointment (at the pharmacist's recommendation), topical Benedryl, hydrocortisone ointment - nothing seems to work. The dermatologist can see me in December. That's a big help.

I use d76 1:1 and dektol. I wear gloves when I process film (haven't maybe 2 times) and use tongs when I develop prints, though I've certainly gotten chemicals on my hands. Oh, and the rash is not on my hands. Just most everywhere else.

Please tell me; this doesn't sound like metol sensitivity, does it? Er, uh, and I guess the next question would be, is there metol in those developers?

Thanks.

jim appleyard · Sep 26, 2008

Hi Janet, AFAIK, metol allergies are local; only at the point of contact. I don't believe that it spreads. Could you have Poison Ivy???

Yes, there is metol in D-76 and Dektol.

There's only one dermatologist where you are? Can't your PA/primary care DR. get you to see one that is able to see you?

My best to your family and newest grandchild!

mrtoml · Sep 26, 2008

When I used to get this it was always on my fingers. Never anywhere else.

Ian Grant · Sep 26, 2008

Use a Phenidone (or Dimezone) based PQ developer instead they don't cause dermatitis.

Sensitivity to Metol can be slight to start with with only occasional rashes etc, but you can suddenly become hyper-sensitive. However that was supposed to be due to impurities in the Metol, and is far less common today.

Personally I'm happy to use an MQ film developer, but far prefer a PQ print developer where potentially exposure isvery much higher.

Ian

srs5694 · Sep 27, 2008

I've never experienced metol sensitivity myself and have no special knowledge, but what the others have said does match what I've heard -- it tends to show up on hands or other areas where direct contact is involved. Thus, unless you've been using your developer as a shampoo, the pattern you report seems unlikely to be caused by the developer. In fact, I'd look at your shampoo first! Have you changed brands recently? Even if not, it's conceivable your brand has changed (is "new and improved") in a way that's triggered an allergic reaction in you.

Ian Grant said:
Use a Phenidone (or Dimezone) based PQ developer instead they don't cause dermatitis.

If you want to pursue this possibility, however remote it seems, I'll add that Kodak XTOL is the most common PC (phenidone/ascorbate) film developer, while Silvergrain Tektol and Agfa Neutol Plus (but not other Agfa Neutol products) are PC paper developers. PQ (phenidone/hydroquinone) products are more common than PC developers, but I don't have specific product recommendations, offhand. (I prefer PC developers to PQ developers since everything I've read indicates that ascorbates are less toxic and less environmentally harmful than hydroquinone.) There are plenty of mix-it-yourself PC and PQ developers, too, if you care to go down that path.

Metol-safety of use-Barry Thornton

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