Methylene-Blue Test

RalphLambrecht · Apr 2, 2007

Does anyone here has working experience with this test? I have the materials and the equipment to do this test (I think), but I don't know the precise test procedure and how to calibrate it to residual thiosulfate values.

Have you done this?

Can you share how to set it up and do it?

Lowell Huff · Apr 2, 2007

The methylene -blue test requires very fresh chemicals and some skill in the procedure. It measures residual thiosulfate complexes to compare against the ISO 18917 Standard. Unless you have a very lucrative contract requiring the test, a good washing proceedure is more than enough to prevent untoward effects that might result.
The test is different for film and paper with developer incorporated ( iodine-amylose). Methylene blue test is for non-incorporated products.
i do have the methodology for both.

dancqu · Apr 2, 2007

RalphLambrecht said:
Does anyone here has working experience with this test?

I've read that the amylose iodine test has or is replacing
the methylene blue test. Just as well by me. Of course the
formal exact way to conduct that starch test may be a pain
as well. The blue, the starch, and the HT-2 are all considered
valid tests for residual thiosulfate. Dan

Cor · Apr 3, 2007

RalphLambrecht said:
Does anyone here has working experience with this test? I have the materials and the equipment to do this test (I think), but I don't know the precise test procedure and how to calibrate it to residual thiosulfate values.

Have you done this?

Can you share how to set it up and do it?

Hi Ralph,

I should have a Kodak publication which describes this test, it's not in an electronic format though. At present I do not have a scanner, though I could organise it. So if nobody has a electronic file, let me know, and I'll see what I can do,

Best,

Cor

dancqu · Apr 3, 2007

Lowell Huff said:
The test is different for film and paper with
developer incorporated ( iodine-amylose).
Methylene blue test is for non-incorporated
products. I do have the methodology for both.

I wonder if that is correct. Off hand I can think of
no reason the amylose-iodine test would not work
with non-DI emulsions. I've read that that test is
NEEDED for RC emulsions. No mention of DI.

I may be able to find the source of information which
mentioned M. Blue's discontinuance. No specific paper
was mentioned. Dan

RalphLambrecht · Apr 3, 2007

dancqu said:
I wonder if that is correct. Off hand I can think of
no reason the amylose-iodine test would not work
with non-DI emulsions. I've read that that test is
NEEDED for RC emulsions. No mention of DI.

I may be able to find the source of information which
mentioned M. Blue's discontinuance. No specific paper
was mentioned. Dan

It is correct, according to the synopsis of the ISO standard.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 3, 2007

Cor said:
Hi Ralph,

I should have a Kodak publication which describes this test, it's not in an electronic format though. At present I do not have a scanner, though I could organise it. So if nobody has a electronic file, let me know, and I'll see what I can do,

Best,

Cor

Cor

I would be happy to reimburse you for any cost and effort involved.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 3, 2007

Lowell Huff said:
The methylene -blue test requires very fresh chemicals and some skill in the procedure. It measures residual thiosulfate complexes to compare against the ISO 18917 Standard. Unless you have a very lucrative contract requiring the test, a good washing proceedure is more than enough to prevent untoward effects that might result.
The test is different for film and paper with developer incorporated ( iodine-amylose). Methylene blue test is for non-incorporated products.
i do have the methodology for both.

Lowell

I need the test to conduct a small, private research project. I would buy the standard paper, but I'm not even sure if it details the process to conduct the test. Does it have detailed work instruction, or can you just share the methodology with me? I don't need the iodine-amylose for now.

Helen B · Apr 3, 2007

Ralph, Dan,

As Lowell says:

"1.4 The iodine-amylose can be used with fibre-based paper, resin-coated paper, films and plates. It is the method
to be used with films and papers containing incorporated developing agents.

1.5 The methylene blue method can be used with fibre-based paper, resin-coated paper, films and plates but not
with films and paper containing incorporated developing agents.

1.6 The silver sulfide densitometric method measures thiosulfates, polythionates and all other residual chemicals
in a processed product that react with silver ion to form a silver "stain" under the conditions of the test."

Ralph, PM sent.

Best,
Helen

RalphLambrecht · Apr 3, 2007

Helen et al

Thank you all for your help. Helen convinced me to get the ISO standard paper. It has all I need to conduct this test.

dancqu · Apr 3, 2007

Helen B said:
Ralph, Dan,

"1.4 The iodine-amylose can be used with fibre-based
paper, resin-coated paper, films and plates. It is the method
to be used with films and papers containing incorporated
developing agents. Helen

So, as I suspected. The iodine-amylose test covers
everything. I'm interested in that test because I think
it likely more sensitive than the HT-2 test. I've been
using variations of the HT-2 to test various fix-hca-
wash scenarios. Dan

dancqu · Apr 4, 2007

dancqu;450716 So said:
The above quote is correct. The iodine-amylose test
does cover all materials of interest. The key element is
developer incorporated or is it not. That according to
D. Nishimura. He recommends the iodine-amylose for
ALL tests. RC or not, apparently that has nothing
to do with choice of method. Dan

Helen B · Apr 4, 2007

Nobody was saying anything to the contrary, were they?

dancqu · Apr 4, 2007

Helen B said:
Nobody was saying anything to the contrary, were they?

Not in so many words. I wondered if correct a statement
by Mr. Huff. He implied an exclusive nature to each of the two
tests; amylose-iodine and methylene blue. The first of the two
tests is good for Any material of usual interest and to an ANSI
standard; the same standard as includes the blue and HT-2.

The key word in your quoting of the standard is 'the';
"the method" for testing DI emulsions and that method is
the amylose-iodine method. It does work with "non-DI
emulsions" and is recommended.

Mr. Nishimura argues in it's favor rather than the
methylene blue because of the possible presence of a
developer incorporated emulsion; I might add DI super-
coat. The connection of RC papers with DI emulsions
is not so much as was the case. Dan

Methylene-Blue Test

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