Metering

Camera-Enthusiast · Nov 24, 2014

I take it I might be posting this in the wrong category (please excuse me if this is the case) I am entirely new to the forum. I had a quick question regarding metering light when taking landscape photographs. Specifically referring to any situation in which I cannot simply walk over to my subject and perform the reading there, I am entirely new to this type of reflective reading with a handheld meter as I've previously always had the privilege of using a metered prism. I've read in various places on the internet that an incident reading is fairly simple in contrary to a reflective reading, which apparently takes skill and a good understanding of light (which I don't really have). I was just hoping to get some tips from one of the friendliest online film photography communities regarding the matter at hand. I hope i've been clear enough, thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing some of your responses!

BrianShaw · Nov 24, 2014

There are a couple of options. If the light you are standing in is similar to the light in the subject area, then you could use an incident reading. You can always meter reflected light using the hand-held meter just as you did with a metered prism. Be aware of the acceptance angle of your specific meter and what is inlcuded/excluded from that light reading. Same as with your metered prism. For more accuracy in metering, you could consider a spot meter. There is lots and lots published on this topic. Two decent books to consider for your eontinued enlightenment on this topic: A. Adams, The Camera or The Negative; R. Hicks, Perfect Exposure. But any basic text in photography will be a good start for you.

bernard_L · Nov 24, 2014

Two short remarks:
1. Typical landscape (foliage) has lower reflectance the standard 18% (yes, 18% versus 12%... KISS), so, incident metering or sunny 16 might result in underexposure; I find that typical lanscape often corresponds to "sunny 11".
2. "Correct" exposure also depends on how you want to render the scene. Most scenes will include open-shadow areas, that, if they were the main subject, would require 3 stops more exposure than the sunlit parts. What to do you want to do with these? Incident reading (sunlit) will place the open shadows (average) in ZII: present, but little tonality. One stop more exposure, and they will be in ZIII, enough to show reasonable tonality.
In the end, it is your experience, plus your preferred rendition, plus your usual method of development (including the zero-point error of your thermometer).

Short version: Sunny 11.

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 24, 2014

If you like landscape photography, one of the books I keep going back is "The making of Landscape Photographs" by Charlie Waite.
There are other more technical books by Lee Frost or Joe Cornish.

flavio81 · Nov 24, 2014

bernard_L said:
2. "Correct" exposure also depends on how you want to render the scene. Most scenes will include open-shadow areas, that, if they were the main subject, would require 3 stops more exposure than the sunlit parts. What to do you want to do with these?

Excellent advice that isn't even easily found on photography technique books!!

BrianShaw · Nov 24, 2014

flavio81 said:
Excellent advice that isn't even easily found on photography technique books!!

No disagreement, but...

For someone who is asking such a basic question, a rather basic photo book is a good place to start. No amount of "it depends" and "it's whatever you want" is a very usefull answer when someone is looking for such basic information to get started.

tkamiya · Nov 24, 2014

You have a couple of options.

1) If you can reasonably and safely assume the lighting condition at the subject location is same as where you are standing, you can just measure the light falling on you in incident mode. Be sure to point the meter in light direction and make sure nothing is casting a shadow on the meter.

2) You can use a reflective mode, and point in the general direction of the subject. Your meter's manual should tell you what the "field of view" of the meter is. If that matches similarly to your camera lens, you can get an average exposure of your subject.

3) If you can use a narrow spot mode, you can pick a shadow area where you want "some detail". Measure that spot. Take a reading, and subtract 3 stops. Read up on "zone system" for more detail on this one. This is probably the most accurate method.

4) If you want a very rough metering, just pick an area of middle darkness. Measure that spot with spot metering, then use that as exposure. I actually use this method often when I don't need an exact exposure. With experience, you can get pretty good at it.

Metering and exposure is a pretty deep subject. In all situations, what meter gives you is a guide. You have to take that and apply your knowledge and experience to arrive at the correct exposure.

lxdude · Nov 24, 2014

bernard_L said:
Short version: Sunny 11.

Depends where you are. Where I live, Sunny 11 means blown out transparencies, a full stop or more above optimal exposure.

Hatchetman · Nov 24, 2014

You could just buy a Spotmatic and put the needle in the middle.

Sorry in advance for kidding about such a serious topic.

andrew.roos · Nov 24, 2014

Other posters have given good advice. I would just add that, if you are using negative film (B&W or colour), then remember that you can overexpose the film by several stops without much penalty, but if you underexpose by more than half a stop or so then you risk blocking up shadows. So if you are using one of the less accurate methods - especially an averaging reflected light meter, which can be thrown off by light from a bright sky, for instance - then I suggest over-exposing by half a stop to one stop (or rating your film at half to three quarters of the actual ISO value, which amounts to the same thing). That means that even if you underestimate the exposure by a stop, your negatives will be fine. And if you overestimate the required exposure by a stop, your negatives will be fairly dense and require a longer printing time, but without suffering any other significant penalty.

Transparency (slide) film, on the other hand, has little exposure latitude so you need to try to get the best possible exposure (or bracket exposure if necessary).

RalphLambrecht · Nov 24, 2014

+1on sunny 11

AgX · Nov 24, 2014

tkamiya said:
You have a couple of options.

1) If you can reasonably and safely assume the lighting condition at the subject location is same as where you are standing, you can just measure the light falling on you in incident mode. Be sure to point the meter in light direction and make sure nothing is casting a shadow on the meter.

If the meter does not allow for incident metering:

We got two substitute metering targets at hand: our hands
(just take into account their higher reflectivity than the standard grey card, which gives about +1)

tkamiya · Nov 24, 2014

AgX said:
If the meter does not allow for incident metering:

We got two substitute metering targets at hand: our hands
(just take into account their higher reflectivity than the standard grey card, which gives about +1)

Or, if you happen to be Asian, just use back of your hand.... Mine basically gives the same reading as 18% reference. Pretty "handy!"

Chan Tran · Nov 24, 2014

tkamiya said:
Or, if you happen to be Asian, just use back of your hand.... Mine basically gives the same reading as 18% reference. Pretty "handy!"

+1!
I checked mine regularly with the densitometer and it read around .75 density. If it reads different I recalibrate my densitometer.

BrianShaw · Nov 24, 2014

Chan Tran said:
+1!
I checked mine regularly with the densitometer and it read around .75 density. If it reads different I recalibrate my densitometer.

Seasonal changes???

Chan Tran · Nov 25, 2014

BrianShaw said:
Seasonal changes???

Nah you didn't get my point. The back of my hand is my reference. If the densitometer doesn't read any where near 0.75 density then it's the densitometer that need to recalibrate not my hand. (Just joking really)

MattKing · Nov 25, 2014

Chan Tran said:
Nah you didn't get my point. The back of my hand is my reference. If the densitometer doesn't read any where near 0.75 density then it's the densitometer that need to recalibrate not my hand. (Just joking really)

Some of us find that the "zone" of the backs of our hands changes with the seasons.

tkamiya · Nov 25, 2014

MattKing said:
Some of us find that the "zone" of the backs of our hands changes with the seasons.

Maybe you should calibrate your densitometer....

Regular Rod · Nov 25, 2014

Camera-Enthusiast said:
I take it I might be posting this in the wrong category (please excuse me if this is the case) I am entirely new to the forum. I had a quick question regarding metering light when taking landscape photographs. Specifically referring to any situation in which I cannot simply walk over to my subject and perform the reading there, I am entirely new to this type of reflective reading with a handheld meter as I've previously always had the privilege of using a metered prism. I've read in various places on the internet that an incident reading is fairly simple in contrary to a reflective reading, which apparently takes skill and a good understanding of light (which I don't really have). I was just hoping to get some tips from one of the friendliest online film photography communities regarding the matter at hand. I hope i've been clear enough, thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing some of your responses!

Learn the Zone System (This might help you: http://www.earthscenics.com/manuals/zoneman_8_11_05.pdf )
Use a Spotmeter
If using roll film use a compensating developer with a semi-stand agitation regime

RR

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 26, 2014

I have a backup incident metre for emergencies. I prefer a reflective spot metre which allows me to read the light coming off of objects in the scene. That way I will know where they fall on the exposure scale.

BrianShaw · Nov 26, 2014

tkamiya said:
Maybe you should calibrate your densitometer....

It has more to do with staying out of the sun than any densimeter calibration.

tkamiya · Nov 26, 2014

Calibrate your sun exposure then.... With more melanin in my skin, I'd think I'll change color more, but amazingly, I don't. I go from my usual color to burned, peel, and back to the original color. My girlfriend (who is a Caucasian) tans better than I do.

cliveh · Nov 26, 2014

Camera-Enthusiast said:
I take it I might be posting this in the wrong category (please excuse me if this is the case) I am entirely new to the forum. I had a quick question regarding metering light when taking landscape photographs. Specifically referring to any situation in which I cannot simply walk over to my subject and perform the reading there, I am entirely new to this type of reflective reading with a handheld meter as I've previously always had the privilege of using a metered prism. I've read in various places on the internet that an incident reading is fairly simple in contrary to a reflective reading, which apparently takes skill and a good understanding of light (which I don't really have). I was just hoping to get some tips from one of the friendliest online film photography communities regarding the matter at hand. I hope i've been clear enough, thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing some of your responses!

It is virtually impossible to answer this question without knowing the type of film you are using.

John Koehrer · Nov 26, 2014

I'm not sure what choice of film has to do with either technique or type of equipment.
Familiarity in using the(your) meter covers it.

cliveh · Nov 26, 2014

John Koehrer said:
I'm not sure what choice of film has to do with either technique or type of equipment.
Familiarity in using the(your) meter covers it.

B&W, colour neg, colour slide, ortho, IR, need I go on?

Metering

Camera-Enthusiast

BrianShaw

bernard_L

Ricardo Miranda

flavio81

BrianShaw

tkamiya

lxdude

Hatchetman

andrew.roos

RalphLambrecht

AgX

tkamiya

Chan Tran

BrianShaw

Chan Tran

MattKing

Moderator

tkamiya

Regular Rod

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

BrianShaw

tkamiya

cliveh

John Koehrer

cliveh

Metering

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Moderator

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