Metering with my Hassy

jgcull · Feb 27, 2015

I wasn't sure where to post this, but it does say "and accessories" so I'll try it here. I'll move if necessary.

I use a Minolta IVf in ambient mode. I'm wondering if it's off because when I take my negatives to the darkroom they're so, so different from the negatives from my Nikons. I process the 35mm ones 12.5 minutes but go nearly 15 minutes for the Hasselblad's. They come out way too clean looking for my tastes. I like hard contrast and I like some grain. I'm not after smooth slush and pretty. I know my description isn't good. I know how to adjust for those things in the darkroom but it's gotta make me wonder WHY the negatives are so different? I use TriX for all cameras, but the exposures are very different.

Is it possible to have my meter checked out, or corrected if needed?

Thank you.

Gary Holliday · Feb 27, 2015

Your Minolta IVF measures light falling onto the subject, but your Nikon's built in light meter measures light being reflected from the subject and works out an average, so you will get different results. Providing that you are using your Minolta correctly and it doesn't need recalibrated, the Minolta should give you the best results.

Trask · Feb 27, 2015

I'd suggest you meter a scene with your Minolta meter, take a photo at the shutter speed/f-stop combination with your Hasselblad, then take a photo with your Nikon using the same setting from your Minolta. Then reverse: meter a scene with your Nikon and expose per the in-camera meter, then use that same speed/f-stop combination to expose a frame with your Hasselblad. Develop identically, preferably together in the same tank, and see what you get. The "matching" photos should be the same or nearly so. I believe Garry's right: it's the difference in metering technique that's the big difference. You either need to meter for both cameras with one meter, or treat each camera/meter pairing as unique and develop each as required to get your desired result.

vpwphoto · Feb 27, 2015

No two light meters agree. I lived with my Minolta IV, and ignored in camera meters my whole career.

jspillane · Feb 27, 2015

jgcull said:
I like hard contrast and I like some grain. I'm not after smooth slush and pretty.

Aside from the metering differences, 120 film is going to be far cleaner and with less visible grain than equivalent 35mm film. Some developers can help bring out grain (Rodinal). I would also consider trying a slightly grainier film, like Foma 400.

If you want grainy with medium format, you are going to have to use different techniques and make much larger enlargements than with 35mm.

Richard Man · Feb 27, 2015

First, I think we need to see some samples to see what you mean. Sounds like the Hassy negs are flat, but we can't tell.

You need to check the exposure from the meter vs. the Nikon. Make sure they mostly agree.

Then may be your Hassy needs a CLA. The shutter speed can often goes wonky.

And as mentioned, 120 film may behave differently from the 35mm counterpart. Should not be much though.

cliveh · Feb 27, 2015

On my Hassy I have a meter prism finder and have found it very accurate.

Gary Holliday · Feb 27, 2015

cliveh said:
On my Hassy I have a meter prism finder and have found it very accurate.

I have the PME90 meter prism, but it has both metering techniques built in. The dome for measuring ambient light and normal in-camera reflective metering. I always use and trust the handheld IVF since I find it easier to use when adjusting for filters.

ic-racer · Feb 27, 2015

You need to determine if your negatives are under-exposed or under-developed to proceed.

Sirius Glass · Feb 27, 2015

cliveh said:
On my Hassy I have a meter prism finder and have found it very accurate.

Same here. I always use it.

jgcull · Feb 27, 2015

"You need to determine if your negatives are under-exposed or under-developed to proceed."

How would I determine that?

Didjiman, I would like to show you prints from these negatives but my scanner isn't working. I could mail you something.

jgcull · Feb 27, 2015

... and Gary. How do I know if it needs to be calibrated. If so, who does that? I see you're not in the US, but maybe somebody here knows?

ambaker · Feb 27, 2015

I don't know if he calibrates light meters, but for the rest of the camera, backs and lenses, David Odess at http://www.david-odess.com. Does a great job. If he doesn't do light meters, he may know someone who does.

He is factory trained, and has been helpful when I have had questions.

jgcull · Feb 27, 2015

Thank you, all.

Richard Man · Feb 27, 2015

jgcull said:
"You need to determine if your negatives are under-exposed or under-developed to proceed."

How would I determine that?

Didjiman, I would like to show you prints from these negatives but my scanner isn't working. I could mail you something.

Both of these advices basically say the same thing Do you have a cellphone cam? You can actually just take a photo of the neg with the neg on a white monitor background. That works reasonably well. Or cell phone photos of your prints.

Anyway, first you need to determine the cause of your problems. For example, if your shutter speed is off, then no metering device would help that

Richard Man · Feb 27, 2015

So again: check your meter reading against your Nikon meter. They should agree in general. Certainly within 1/2 stop or so, for "most scenes." (minus shooting into the hotspots, extremely low light etc.)

jgcull · Feb 27, 2015

didjiman, I have compared the meters and they give very different readings (more than a stop) but as Gary said:

"Your Minolta IVF measures light falling onto the subject, but your Nikon's built in light meter measures light being reflected from the subject and works out an average, so you will get different results."

Someone sent a message saying she knows of a man who can check and calibrate meters in Greensboro, which isn't too far from me. I'll likely send it off to be checked.

I'll let you know what I find out about the Minolta.

Richard Man · Feb 28, 2015

jgcull said:
didjiman, I have compared the meters and they give very different readings (more than a stop) but as Gary said:

"Your Minolta IVF measures light falling onto the subject, but your Nikon's built in light meter measures light being reflected from the subject and works out an average, so you will get different results."

Someone sent a message saying she knows of a man who can check and calibrate meters in Greensboro, which isn't too far from me. I'll likely send it off to be checked.

I'll let you know what I find out about the Minolta.

Yes, this is how incident meter vs. reflective meter works. It comes down to you need to know how to use each. Please google and you will find out. For example, If the IVF is an incident meter, then you should be standing where your subject is, and point the meter to your camera.

Now most meters work in both mode, so you can probably use the IVF as a reflective meter, just like your Nikon. Anyway, do some research and it will be clear.

No need to fix anything yet.

jgcull · Feb 28, 2015

"If the IVF is an incident meter, then you should be standing where your subject is, and point the meter to your camera."

Yes, that is how I use it.

There is no question in my mind that the meter is off.

I just found this, googling "calibrating a Minolta IVF meter": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8saFxL93Qg It sounds odd, but I read the comments and it seemed to work. It's worth a try.

Richard Man · Feb 28, 2015

OK, you are using it correctly then and if the readings are off WRT the Nikon, then yes, you are correct.

Good luck!

John Koehrer · Feb 28, 2015

FWIW, I've never expected Ttl readings and handheld meters to be the same. As they say YMMV.

Films, are they both TX or is one TXP? They're different emulsions and I don't know what's currently available..

You might try Rodinal, lots of people think it increases grain & contrast.

vpwphoto · Mar 14, 2015

The reason photography now and then is so tough for newcomers is that you need to standardize all your processes, this is why in college the professor recommended we each have our own thermometer etc. just as two meters don't agree, no two shutters do either, or thermometersj. Best advice is to buy Ansel Adams "the negative" read it all. Make some photos, the read it again, the third time I read it I finally "got it". Also stale developer even concentrate in a bottle can effect outcomes. It's like playing the piano can't do it now and then, and also can't just jump in. You can have all the recipes, but not the technique agitation etc in place. Hope this helps and don't give up.

Metering with my Hassy

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