Medium format SLR vs. TLR - IQ vs. Portability

wiltw · Sep 2, 2020

Dali said:
Proportion of 35mm SLR cameras with WLF compared to pentaprism? 1 to 1000 maybe?

The problem, as TTL metering became adopted as de facto in 135 SLRs starting in the late 1960s, was the fact that most TTL meters (with exception of the Topcon Super D) make waist level finders in SLRs disabling of the camera's metering capabilities! So I would say that after the Topcon RE was launched in 1963, waist level finders in 135 SLRs very rapidly vanished in availability. Even Nikon adopted the integrated prism housing.
The Nikon F and the Topcon Super D had WLF, but the Nikon lost its metering capability without the Photomic T finder. The ratio I guestimate is closer to 1:500,000, and closer to Infinity in the days of dSLR. I doubt there is ANY dSLR with a waist level finder for many reasons.

MattKing · Sep 2, 2020

IIRC, some of the Miranda SLRs had a WLF option as well.

ic-racer · Sep 2, 2020

wiltw said:
I doubt there is ANY dSLR with a waist level finder for many reasons.

NortheastPhotographic · Sep 2, 2020

I use my Rollei 2.8E when I want light weight and a classic look. I use my Hy6 Mod 2 when I want the absolute best in class image and ultra modern operation.

Generally though if you compare a Hasselblad 80 CF and a Rollei 2.8F, you'll find that the Rollei lens has lower contrast, especially in color. Rollei's also flare in a weird 'blob' type of way. However, I prefer the Rollei images to the 80mm CF images. Just a lot more character and the B&W negatives come alive. Not to mention the fact that the Rollei is a heck of a lot more fun to use.

wiltw · Sep 2, 2020

MattKing said:
IIRC, some of the Miranda SLRs had a WLF option as well.

Indeed. like so many other SLRs before TTL metering, Miranda had interchangeable finders. Doing a small bit of research, I learned what I did not previously know...Miranda took an approach very similar to Topcon, in putting the CdS sensors behind small slits in the reflex mirror. So its meter continued to function even with installation of the WLF. Thanks for the reminder.

wiltw · Sep 2, 2020

ic-racer said:
View attachment 253802

Well, OK, but TTL metering regardless of finder?! What brand body is this?

BTW my prior comments were in regard to 135 format bodies, triggered by a statement that WLF was never provided.

Pieter12 · Sep 2, 2020

wiltw said:
Well, OK, but TTL metering?! What brand body is this?

It does have TTL metering. It is a Rollei/Sinar/Leaf Hy6.

ic-racer · Sep 2, 2020

Hy6 manual:

Compensation of extraneous light
Extraneous light incident through the open folding hood is factored into the measurement and compensated up to a ratio of extraneous-to-metered light of approx. 16 : 1. Compensation is independent of the type of viewfinder used.

ic-racer · Sep 2, 2020

Everyone should try shooting with a waist-level 35mm camera at least once. It is a different type of experience.

reddesert · Sep 2, 2020

wiltw said:
Well, OK, but TTL metering regardless of finder?! What brand body is this?

BTW my prior comments were in regard to 135 format bodies, triggered by a statement that WLF was never provided.

Believe it or not, the Nikon F3 has the metering cell in the body, and you could get a waist level finder for it. I've never tried it. See

There are pretty simple reasons WLF is associated with medium format. The focusing screen of a 35mm camera is smallish and most easily viewed with an eyepiece, while the prism needed for an MF camera is much larger and heavier than for 35mm.

DWThomas · Sep 2, 2020

Hmm just followed up a hunch -- there was a waist level finder available for the Canon original F-1 and also later versions. At least some included a magnifier. I was thinking almost any 35mm SLR with an interchangeable prism finder might offer that sort of option. (I have an F-1 body -- maybe I should add another seldom used trinket!!!)

Pieter12 · Sep 2, 2020

reddesert said:
Believe it or not, the Nikon F3 has the metering cell in the body, and you could get a waist level finder for it. I've never tried it. See

There are pretty simple reasons WLF is associated with medium format. The focusing screen of a 35mm camera is smallish and most easily viewed with an eyepiece, while the prism needed for an MF camera is much larger and heavier than for 35mm.

The 45º prism finder for my MF Rollei SLR weighs close the the same as the camera body itself.

wiltw · Sep 2, 2020

reddesert said:
Believe it or not, the Nikon F3 has the metering cell in the body, and you could get a waist level finder for it. I've never tried it. See

There are pretty simple reasons WLF is associated with medium format. The focusing screen of a 35mm camera is smallish and most easily viewed with an eyepiece, while the prism needed for an MF camera is much larger and heavier than for 35mm.

I suspected that Nikon kept the interchangeable finder in the successors to the F, but I did not know with certainty...how far down the lineage beyond the F3?

Pieter12 · Sep 2, 2020

wiltw said:
I suspected that Nikon kept the interchangeable finder in the successors to the F, but I did not know with certainty...how far down the lineage beyond the F3?

I believe the F4 was the last one.

markjwyatt · Sep 3, 2020

grat said:
On the other hand, put a Bronica SQ-A next to a Mamiya C33 with a 180mm lens, and the Bronica starts looking like a nice, portable camera.

Interestingly, my dad used the Mamiya C330f for weddings. He decided to switch to the Bronica SQ-A system (at which point I bought the C330f). What he liked about the Bronica was film backs. Changing film during a wedding under pressure is no fun, and we used to take a lot of pictures. What he missed (I recall he told me this), was the ease of focus with the TLR vs. the Bronica. His vision was changing at that point (eventually changed back...). I think he thought the viewfinder was brighter on the Mamiya than the Bronica.

eli griggs · Sep 3, 2020

You can also include the F1n and F1N "Speed Finders" in the 'Prism' Waist Level Finder Column, as these have two positions for their wide viewing window, 90 degree vertical and 90 degree horizontal, though the Speed finder I have mounted on my F1n currently, extends about 1 3/4" above and behind the back door.

Canon also made more traditional WLF for both these cameras, but each camera has its own version of finders, in the two systems.

johnha · Sep 3, 2020

The Pentax LX also has the metering in the body and interchangeable finders. Some are much more interesting than a WLF - which are rather limited in the fast paced shooting usually associated with 35mm SLRs.

The 'Action' finder (FB-1 & FC-1 combo) rotates into many positions, it gives a reduced magnification (approx 0.5x) but gives a right way up corrected finder with enormous eye relief.

Vaughn · Sep 3, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
WLF allow stray light and dust to be introduced to the viewing screen. That and the damned left right reversal is why my WLF remains folded away in the camera bag.

I learned to photograph with a TLR Rollei with a WLF, so for awhile I thought most cameras must reverse the image. But looking at the image backwards with the WLF prepared me for looking at an upside down image on the GG of the view camera. Any which way up is fine.

Checking out TLRs to students for the first time, I would have them look at the GG and follow me with the camera as I moved right or left to clue them into it right away.

narsuitus · Sep 3, 2020

wiltw said:
I suspected that Nikon kept the interchangeable finder in the successors to the F, but I did not know with certainty...how far down the lineage beyond the F3?

The Nikon F, F2, F3, F4, and F5 all have interchangeable view finders.
The F6 does not.

guangong · Sep 3, 2020

My comments on WLF must not have been clearly stated. I was not comparing WLF with prism, but, since some commented that camera level was too low when using WLF, I asked how many regularly shoot with camera hanging level with their belly? Even when using a WLF, I normally raise camera to my eye and do not shoot from chest or belly. Occasionally I use Roller with prism finder and pistol grip, but then it's not such a compact package.

Alex Varas · Sep 3, 2020

guangong said:
My comments on WLF must not have been clearly stated. I was not comparing WLF with prism, but, since some commented that camera level was too low when using WLF, I asked how many regularly shoot with camera hanging level with their belly? Even when using a WLF, I normally raise camera to my eye and do not shoot from chest or belly. Occasionally I use Roller with prism finder and pistol grip, but then it's not such a compact package.

Unless it's a portrait my TLR or SLR with WLF are in my chest or belly.

hashtagquack · Sep 3, 2020

ic-racer said:
Everyone should try shooting with a waist-level 35mm camera at least once. It is a different type of experience.

I need to know, what is this? I have this urge to mess with all the dials

Sirius Glass · Sep 3, 2020

etn said:
Ha ha,yet another "Hasselblad vs. Rollei" thread

Well one can walk down the street with a Hasselblad with the 80mm lens and carry the 50mm lens and a telephoto lens in a shoulder bag OR walk down the street with three Rolleis around one's neck. Do you really want to stick your neck out?

Bormental · Sep 3, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Well one can walk down the street with a Hasselblad with the 80mm lens and carry the 50mm lens and a telephoto lens in a shoulder bag OR walk down the street with three Rolleis around one's neck. Do you really want to stick your neck out?

One can walk around the street with a Rollei in their hand OR walk down the street with nothing but an iPhone because all the lenses and backs were too much for one's neck

markjwyatt · Sep 3, 2020

Bormental said:
One can walk around the street with a Rollei in their hand OR walk down the street with nothing but an iPhone because all the lenses and backs were too much for one's neck

How many roads must a man walk down
Before he figures out what should be around his neck...

Medium format SLR vs. TLR - IQ vs. Portability

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