medium format rangefinder with built-in light meter? 6x7 or 6x9 negative?

cstorm · Mar 13, 2010

I am very interested in upping my game with a medium format camera. The perfect camera would be a rangefinder (less massive) which creates a 6x7 or 6x9 negative and has a built-in light meter (still don't trust myself enough with an external one).
Does such a thing exist?. I know the Mamiya 6 is almost it but I really am not a fan of the square format.

Thanks!

Mike1234 · Mar 13, 2010

Why are you afraid of an external meter? This would open MANY wonderful camera choices for you. BTW, I MUCH prefer 6x9.

DaveOttawa · Mar 13, 2010

cstorm said:
...I know the Mamiya 6 is almost it but I really am not a fan of the square format.

Thanks!

Mamiya 7 then??

pnance · Mar 13, 2010

Bronica rangefinder?

c.w. · Mar 13, 2010

The new fuji folder?

Sirius Glass · Mar 13, 2010

Hasselblad with a PME [metering] prism.

Steve

John Koehrer · Mar 13, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
Hasselblad with a PME [metering] prism.

Steve

That doesn't seem to be either 6X7 or 6X9 and the Bronica is 6X4.5

The two choices are Mamiya 7/7ll or the Bessa lll unless you're willing to consider older Fuji's.

cstorm · Mar 13, 2010

Thanks everybody! i will look into all of these.

I would definitely consider an older fuji. I'm no millionaire, so old/used is the way to go.

Janos · Mar 14, 2010

Yes! The Plaubel Makina. Different, beautiful, with Nikkor optics.

Rol_Lei Nut · Mar 14, 2010

Janos said:
Yes! The Plaubel Makina. Different, beautiful, with Nikkor optics.

But reputedly unreliable and difficult (impossible) to repair... :-(

Keith Cocker · Mar 14, 2010

cstorm said:
I am very interested in upping my game with a medium format camera. The perfect camera would be a rangefinder (less massive) which creates a 6x7 or 6x9 negative and has a built-in light meter (still don't trust myself enough with an external one).

Thanks!

I had the Mamiya 7 but found using a hand-held meter to be much better then the Mamiya's internal meter.

frotog · Mar 14, 2010

Rol_Lei Nut said:
But reputedly unreliable and difficult (impossible) to repair... :-(

I've shot with my 670 for 15 years. Probably put close to 2000 rolls through it before I smashed the top cap of the camera. The good folks at Nippon fixed it with the top half of a parts camera. Cost me $550. Probably one of my favorite cameras ever. Super accurate spot meter. I think it got the reputation you echo mostly due to all the ham-fisted photographers who collapsed the lens too vigorously as my experience proves that it is a great user camera.

cbphoto · Mar 14, 2010

You're really tying your hands with the meter requirement. The Fuji GW670II was my last MF camera to go (I'm 100% 35mm now, but that Fuji was amazing. Just make sure to have the film advance looked at now and then.), but I don't recall whether or not it had a meter. I don't think it did. There's no "trusting yourself" - a built-in meter is prone to being fooled, as you still have to judge the tone it is reading and compensate. No difference in use. I'd pick up a used spot meter.

Unfortunately, MF is not like 35mm, which has a bazillion cameras out there with every feature and configuration imaginable. You kinda have to deal with what they make available.

2F/2F · Mar 14, 2010

Since built-in light meters will not give you an ideal normal exposure in 90% of compositions (not even when pointed at a grey card, as you must open up 1/2 stop from the grey card reading to get an ideal normal exposure), why is that a criterion?

Using a hand held light meter well would not only give you an ideal exposure every time, but would open up tons of options for cameras.

What to suggest really depends on your budget. Fuji has made some nice 6x7, 6x8, and 6x9 rangefinders.

I am a fan of the Mamiya Press system and 2x3 Graphics and Linhofs myself...but no meters.

picker77 · Mar 14, 2010

And until you've actually picked up a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder, hold off judgment on the "less massive" idea.

I second the meter replies.. Forget internal meters for film MF. Except for the convenience factor, they will always be less accurate in anything but spot mode, because in-camera meters are ALL reflective-reading meters, and few metered MF's even have a spot mode. If you plan to learn to effectively use spot metering, you might as well also have the benefit of an accurate incident/spot meter like one of the late model Sekonics that do it all in one package. Having hauled around a Luna Pro F and a separate Soligor spot meter for years, I just bought a Sekonic L-608, and I really like it. I'm sorry I didn't get one years ago.

Rol_Lei Nut · Mar 14, 2010

Plaubel Makina 67

frotog said:
I've shot with my 670 for 15 years. Probably put close to 2000 rolls through it before I smashed the top cap of the camera. The good folks at Nippon fixed it with the top half of a parts camera. Cost me $550. Probably one of my favorite cameras ever. Super accurate spot meter. I think it got the reputation you echo mostly due to all the ham-fisted photographers who collapsed the lens too vigorously as my experience proves that it is a great user camera.

Hi,

Does "Nippon" still exist? When was the repair carried out?

I was very interested in the Makina 67, but some research seemed to point out that spending a lot on it was a poor decision...
IIRC, the main complaint was the wiring/circuit board breaking where it flexed when the camera was folded and was apparently (practically) impossible to repair.

Again, I was extremely interested in the camera (especally the "W" model), but hints of unreparability due to lack of original parts (on a fairly rare camera - hence it's unlikely any parts cameras might be available) make me extremely wary...

frotog · Mar 14, 2010

Nippon photo clinic in nyc is the best repair shop for Plaubel Makinas. I've never had any problems with the light meter on my 670. It's very accurate. Readings are identical to my Sekonic variable spot meter in its widest (5 degree?) mode. I honestly believe that all the electrical problems reported in various forums are the result of knuckleheads opening and closing the lens as if it were a switch blade. I'll admit that the temptation to do this is great as the design is so stealthy cool and the lens clicking into position is satisfying indeed. I've never shot with the 67W but the Nikkor 2.8 80mm is razor sharp.

frotog · Mar 14, 2010

...Oh yeah...my repair was done about 1-1/2 years ago. Nippon is really good at maintaining a stock of spare parts.

cbphoto · Mar 14, 2010

Nippon fixed my GW670's film advance a few years back. I've used them for a Contax repair as well, and they are pretty great!

cstorm · Mar 15, 2010

I was unaware of the meter reading issues on such cameras. I am used to my 35mm cameras where in I always go by what the give me, with mostly positive results. I have a good sekonic light meter, I guess I just have to get used to using it and taking those few extra seconds.

therefore, i guess, any ideas on cheaper used mf cameras? As a struggling artist (who is obviously still learning) 2K used isnt really an option. i guess i just like the concept of a camera which functions seemingly like a larger version of a 35mm camera. I always was at odds with bulky hasselblads when I used them when i was in school. I'm a bigger guy, so I can handle heavier cameras, but the hasselblad/mamiya boxy slrs always proved to cumbersome. But I just gotta have that bigger negative.

Thoughts on the Pentax 67? I know its an SLR but it seems much more managable, and somewhat cheaper.

André E.C. · Mar 15, 2010

Use that Sekonic and get a Fuji, there you have!

Rol_Lei Nut · Mar 15, 2010

cstorm said:
Thoughts on the Pentax 67? I know its an SLR but it seems much more managable, and somewhat cheaper.

The Pentax 6x7 is (much) cheaper. But it *is* big and heavy!

Possible cheap & light alternatives:
Mokba 3 or 4: A Zeiss Super Ikonta copy. (6x9 folder). Has front element focusing and as a folder is prone to alignment problems. No meter of course. One I had actually gave very sharp results, until I dropped it.... :-(

Iskra: A very tough 6x6 folder, with unit-focusing lens (forgot the exact term now, but good!). Most have seen heavy (professional) use. Many have broken frame counters, replaced by a hole drilled through the back for manual advancement (look at the numbers on the paper backing). One model even has a biuilt-in selenium meter.
Nice camera!

cbphoto · Mar 15, 2010

cstorm said:
therefore, i guess, any ideas on cheaper used mf cameras? As a struggling artist (who is obviously still learning) 2K used isnt really an option. i guess i just like the concept of a camera which functions seemingly like a larger version of a 35mm camera. .

The answer is still Fuji!

KEH as a GW670II for $725 right now. You will not find a comparable camera in that price range.

Bryan Murray · Mar 15, 2010

cbphoto said:
The answer is still Fuji!

KEH as a GW670II for $725 right now. You will not find a comparable camera in that price range.

yes i have that camera and i love it! Nippon photo clinic did tell be to be careful though as parts are getting harder to find. But i haven't had any problems and it's easy to carry around the city. i use a pentax spot meter and it's a great combo.

DanielStone · Mar 15, 2010

OP(or anyone else interested)

I have a GW670III for sale. comes with shoulder case.

see here

Dead Link Removed

so far had some offers, but no biters yet.

-Dan

medium format rangefinder with built-in light meter? 6x7 or 6x9 negative?

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