Medium format for an SLR shooter

Necator · Sep 12, 2009

I recently got my first medium format camera, an Agfa Isolette V, and almost instantly I fell in love with the huuge negatives. Before this, I have only shot 35mm, so looking at a freshly developed roll of 120 film was quite something.

As much as I like the Isolette, it does have a fair amount of drawbacks (no meter, focus by guessing the range). So, what is the logical next step, if I want a medium format camera with some focusing aid (e.g. focusing screen), and perhaps a meter ?

Another drawback of the Isolette is that the lens is quite mediocre, so I would like a camera that would do the 120 format justice, in terms of optical performance.

The Isolette is a 6x6, but suggestions in other formats (645, 6x7) are also welcome.

I am looking to spend no more than 400 USD / 2000 DKK (when I have that saved up, right now my camera-funds are a bit depleted). Does that sounds possible, given the constraints I have set up?

olleorama · Sep 12, 2009

Yes, it does sound possible. RB67 is available at that price sometimes. And maybe the Bronica SQ*?

André E.C. · Sep 12, 2009

Well, I like 6x6 so I say, stick with it.
As for the camera, with that money you can find a very nice Rolleiflex Automat with a Tessar.

Good luck.

Nick Zentena · Sep 12, 2009

If you need a meter then Pentax 645 is the simplest choice. Consider it an over grown 35mm SLR. The first model should be easily in your US$ budget.

If you can live without a meter the choices get much bigger. Including the system cameras that you can add a metering prism to later.

AgentX · Sep 12, 2009

If you're looking for something to imitate the handling/speed of a 35mm SLR, look to the various 645 SLR models from Mamiya, Pentax, or Bronica, or even the Pentax 6x7. 6x6 options exist with the Bronica SQ series at your price range, too. Or check out the modern 645 type rangefinders.

If you're looking for a different style of shooting, TLRs and 6x6 SLRs with waist-level finders might be an option.

ricksplace · Sep 12, 2009

If you like the 35mm SLR ergonomics, have a look at the cameras offered by Pentax and Pentacon Six. There are Russian Kievs too. There is a lot written regarding the quality of the Kiev cameras. Some folks swear by them, some swear at them. I have a couple of Pentacon Sixes that handle like a slightly swollen Praktica. Come to think of it, that's exactly what they are...
The Pentacon Six has been a reliable camera for me, and those Zeiss lenses are absolutely outstanding. Cheap too. 4/50 Distagon for Pentacon Six $200, for Hassy $3000.

dustmite · Sep 12, 2009

I found a Fuji 6x7 rangefinder in excellent condition for $450.00 on _Bay recently.

Jeff Kubach · Sep 12, 2009

You could check out the RB67 or a TLR.

Jeff

Robert Budding · Sep 12, 2009

Most of the 67 SLR's are best used on a tripod. A nice 645 SLR, on the other hand, can easily be hand held. Take a look at the Bronica ETRSi - it's an excellent camera at a reasonable price.

Marc Akemann · Sep 12, 2009

I've seen 6x6 Bronica EC or EC-TLs with lens and film back go for around $400 or less. I got lucky and purchased a nice EC-TL, 2 12/24 6x6 backs, 75/2.8 Nikkor & 150/3.5 Zenzanon for $365 a few years back on eBay.

keithwms · Sep 12, 2009

Mamiya 645 pro + 80/1.9 or 80/2.8 lens is a very fun intro to the format and will be within your budget. The camera is highly modular... you can add on a metering prism, winder, wireless remote etc. if you want.

The rb67 is the best overall bang for the buck, but the size is a bit daunting for some. I favour the 645 pro and afd for handheld stuff, the rb for working off a tripod. The rb is a superb choice if you have closeup/macro interests because it is bellows focusing.

brian steinberger · Sep 12, 2009

Necator, if you like 6x6 and would like an SLR, then the option is the Bronica SQ-A. Great system, great lenses, and light years cheaper than a Hasselblad. I don't have too much experience with 6x7 SLR's, they start to get large and bulky though. I know the Mamiya RB and RZ users have a huge following. And in 645 you have many options as well, the Mamiya's would be my choice, but the Bronica ETRS series are nice as well, and Pentax makes a great 645 SLR system too.

My personal choice would be for the SQ-A. But it's not my choice to make, it's yours!

bdial · Sep 12, 2009

The good thing about the 645 cameras is that they are compact and many handle much like a 35. But if you're looking for a big negative, the 645 neg does not give you very much over a 35.
Lot's of people criticise 6x6 cameras because if you enlarge to 8x10 you're only using 6x4.5 worth of the frame, but you get to pick that rectangle out of any portion of the neg, which is flexibility you don't get with a 645 camera.
OTH, if you use the whole frame, square prints have a charm all their own.

Q.G. · Sep 12, 2009

As many recommendations as replies, it seems.
And so it should be: there is something for everyone.
So invest a bit of time exploring what was and is available, and think about what would fit your needs and likes best.

Q.G. · Sep 12, 2009

bdial said:
Lot's of people criticise 6x6 cameras because if you enlarge to 8x10 you're only using 6x4.5 worth of the frame

After all the years i have been taking pictures, it still amazes me how people apparently have no problem cropping the image they put on a negative to fit the confection sizes paper comes in, but as good as never even think about cropping a bit of paper to fit the image they made.
Still strikes me as extremely silly. It really does.

Rolleiflexible · Sep 12, 2009

Necator said:
Another drawback of the Isolette is that the lens is quite mediocre, so I would like a camera that would do the 120 format justice, in terms of optical performance.

That's not really fair to the lens, which
is quite a good one. I suspect you are
reacting to the lack of means to focus
the lens precisely, combined perhaps
with the lens not being precisely aligned
to the focal plane -- another problem of
MF folders like the Isolette.

FWIW, I am partial to Rolleiflexes -- they
are second to none in optics, and you
can find many serviceable models within
your price range.

c.w. · Sep 12, 2009

Q.G. said:
After all the years i have been taking pictures, it still amazes me how people apparently have no problem cropping the image they put on a negative to fit the confection sizes paper comes in, but as good as never even think about cropping a bit of paper to fit the image they made.
Still strikes me as extremely silly. It really does.

Well, it can be difficult to find 6 inch by 4.5 inch albums. Or anything other than 4x6, 5x7, or 8x10 really.

Q.G. · Sep 12, 2009

So what?

I never had any trouble producing prints in whatever side ratio i wanted to.
I learned how to cut a piece of paper in kindergarten, and haven't lost the skill since.

And albums do not have to be the same size or ratio as the pictures that go in them.

c.w. · Sep 12, 2009

Q.G. said:
So what?

I never had any trouble producing prints in whatever side ratio i wanted to.
I learned how to cut a piece of paper in kindergarten, and haven't lost the skill since.

And albums do not have to be the same size or ratio as the pictures that go in them.

I suppose i have an unnatural hated of when the prints flop around in the little album sleeves. It bothers me far too much.

I tried to edit my previous post, but it wasn't working - i tried to say that the original poster might look into an SLR system, like a bronica, since you can swap around the parts and try out various configurations..

Necator · Sep 12, 2009

Thank you all so much for your suggestions. This was exactly what I needed, a truckload of suggestions to investigate (read - google) further. It does sound like the 645 format will be the best fit, since I will be shooting hand held most of the time. Even though it is not as big as the 6*6 or the 6*7, it will still have quite an edge on a 35mm.

In the 645 format, a normal lens would be a 75mm, right?

And a follow up question - I have been checking prices on KEH.com, but I was wondering if there was an alternative inside the European Union, so I would avoid paying taxes and VAT?

dynachrome · Sep 12, 2009

I second the Bronica SQ recommendation. I have three SQ-A bodies. An SQ body with a waist level finder and a standard lens and back is not too heavy to carry around. You will need to get used to the laterally reversed image but the format is square so no tilting for verticals is needed. For some reason non-metered prism finders are much less expensive than waist level finders. It could be that more of them were made. If you get a prism finder then eye level hand held shooting will be a lot easier with a Speed Grip. The 80/2.8S and PS lenses are both very good and inexpensive. I have both of those as well as a 50/3.5 PS and a 150/4 PS. I also have a 2X S teleconverter and an S36 extension tube. With the exception of the macro lenses the Bronica Zenzanons do not focus very close. Whether you get a 150/3.5 S or a 150/4 PS, the shorter S18 extension tube will get them close enough for a tight portrait. Bronica also made a 105/3.5 S lens which had closer focusing but which was not carried over to the PS series. I have the version which fits the ETR series 6X4.5 cameras and it doesn't need a tube for a close portrait. The last time I looked, the ETR/ETRS/ETRSi cameras and lenses were even less expensive than the S series models. If you make mostly 8X10 prints then you will be enlarging the same negative area whether you use 6X6 or 6X4.5 so you should consider this because the ETR series camers and lenses are somewhat smaller and lighter.

I also have two GS-1 cameras and have used them for hand-held work. These are quite heavy when you attach a prism finder, a Speed Grip, a lens and a back so you can get some exercise while shooting.

2F/2F · Sep 12, 2009

For 35mm feel, I suggest a 6x4.5 horizontally oriented SLR and a prism finder. In my hand, they are closer to 35mm feel than a Pentax, Pentacon Six, Kiev, etc. The shape of these is closer to a 35mm camera, but I find that the 645s like those by Pentax and Mamiya "feel" closer to a 35mm camera, perhaps due in no small part to the horizontal frame. It feels like a 35, but you get the many benefits of interchangeable magazines.

I often use a motor drive on my Mamiya 645s for hand held use, because I like focusing with my left hand and firing the shot with my right. With the left hand grip, you are doing the opposite.

Nick Zentena · Sep 12, 2009

Necator said:
I have been checking prices on KEH.com, but I was wondering if there was an alternative inside the European Union, so I would avoid paying taxes and VAT?

You don't really avoid them. It's just included in the price. So just mentally tack on the VAT when looking at KEH. If the price including shipping seems reasonable go for it.

Soeren · Sep 12, 2009

Necator said:
Thank you all so much for your suggestions. This was exactly what I needed, a truckload of suggestions to investigate (read - google) further. It does sound like the 645 format will be the best fit, since I will be shooting hand held most of the time. Even though it is not as big as the 6*6 or the 6*7, it will still have quite an edge on a 35mm.

In the 645 format, a normal lens would be a 75mm, right?

And a follow up question - I have been checking prices on KEH.com, but I was wondering if there was an alternative inside the European Union, so I would avoid paying taxes and VAT?

I must say comming from 24X36 SLR I found myself uncomfortable with the 4,5X6cm mamiya I boroved but quickly felt familiar with the 6X6 WLF of both the Yashica 124 and the Bronica SQA-i. Yes 6X6 is a different ratio than 24X36 and the WLF is very diferent from the prismfinder of my Nikons but thats what made the difference in my photography and the Bronica SQA-i is a very good camera.
Best regards

maciekz · Sep 12, 2009

Well, I find that alternatives in Europe are either your local "suppliers" (special meeting places, tiny print ads in photo magazines in your country) or ebay.de. Most of photo things on ebay in Europe come from Germany, UK and Scandinavia, howether it is often cheaper to buy from KEH and pay VAT than to buy in Europe.

Medium format for an SLR shooter

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